The Journey to Creating the Indie Games, Dead Event and Movie Quest Ft. Justin A.K.A. SourJ

what's up and welcome to the Single Player Experience. As always, I'm your host, Sebastian Malden, and in this episode I'm gonna give you two Andy Game recommendations, but that's not all. I'm also gonna chat with the Greater and solo developer of these two games. That's right. In this episode, I'm gonna talk to Justin aka Sour J, about his games. Dead Event and movie Quest. We're gonna talk about both games and Justin is gonna share his inspirational journey of what he went through and overcame to create these two games. We got all this and more coming right at you right after the intro. DJ start the intro main. Ladies and gentlemen, like I said in the intro, we have a very special guest today. He is the creator and solo developer of the Indie Game Dead Event and Movie Quest. Ladies and gentlemen, this is, Justin, a k a Sour J how you doing today, Justin? Good. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Glad to have you on the show. So for the people who may not know you, can you introduce yourself to the audience?

Yeah, uh, my name's Justin. You might know me as Sour J on Twitter. Uh, it's my screen name. I am the, like you said, the developer of two games. That event and movie Quest. I do that independently by myself, um, for about five

years. Man, that's, that's incredible. So, well, right off the bat, like when every time I have a new guest, I have a segment called Putting You on the Spot. This, this allows people to get to know you a little bit as well as I kind of get to hit you with that one Twoo punch right at the very beginning, you know? So I'm gonna put you on the spot real quick. What's your top five games of all time? I'm just gonna hit you with a big heavy question. Aha.

Jeez. Well, I'd have to say workout three. The frozen throne would be my first, uh, good RTS game. Um, you know, all the way back in 2003, got me into gaming. Uh, there's a lot of mods for that. Um, that's where Dota and League Legends came from. Um, that's incredible secret Legal legends. Mm-hmm. that would be my second I, I, you know, it's a little cringe to be my second, but, you know, um, it's come a long way, you know, from, from being the creator was partially with the Dota creator from Warcraft three, and it's a love hate relationship for me.

Okay. Okay. I like the first two choices. So what's the.

Uh, well, I would have to say World of Warcraft. I've played that for such a long time and it kind of innovated the whole m o RPGs. There was a lot of m o RPGs before that, like, you know, rinse and things like that. But, um, I really gotta give it to World of Warcraft on that one, just for making that, that consistency with it. Um, but um, fourth I would, I would say Minecraft. Okay.

Okay. That one is like, one was so far is like none of these games, all these kind games like match up and then you throw Minecraft in there. That one kind of surprised I got

to man. And that's the thing, it's for everyone. And, and that's what's cool about it, you know, kids can play it. Adults can play it. You can mod it. Uh, it's just such a, a cool game for its time. You know, it, it brings so many good times for me, and I actually learned a lot from game development, from it. Um, I, I learned how to mod things, you know, how to, how to code and JavaScript and things like that from just playing on Minecraft. It's pretty, that's how I basical. Got my foundation for game development.

That is crazy cuz I had an interview the other day where a guy mentioned a very similar thing about Minecraft. He said it really inspired him as well as a solo developer. It's, it is so cool how Minecraft has basically like inspired a whole new generation of developers,

you know? Yeah, it just, it kind of like opened the door for me to get me into, into really learning, you know, how to make games. Like you'd be surprised how much goes behind those mods that people make, you know, with, with crazy things like running water and Minecraft, things that you can't normally do in the, in the regular version, electricity and things like that. I wouldn't be

surprised if like this inspires a whole new generation of kids, like, and kids feel more comfortable going into video, video game development cuz of mine.

Exactly. And you know, it's, it's a really good tool and a really good educational thing to learn off of too. You know, I wasn't even expecting anything serious out of it. I made a few servers, you know, had some people on, I think I made like 20 bucks. I wasn't really trying to like, make money or anything, you know, and it just was a really good learning experience for me, especially as a. Young adult, you know, and never really think that would come out of such a blocky game. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. I, because that was my, like hurdle when I first heard of Minecraft. I, it was the visuals of it, cuz I was used to like games, especially being that I'm like a nineties kid, so, When I started gaming, like the visual quality of games kept going higher and higher and higher. And then here comes this game that looks very much like a 2D blocky almost. Well, you get what I mean, like a three dimensional, blocky game. And I'm like, okay, that's a huge step backwards from what I, I'm used to. But that game took over. Just

completely, it still is number one, honestly, in a lot of people's eyes. It's, it's, it's still raining King for a lot of games, and it just because it's so simple and, and, you know, you can mod it. But, uh, speaking of mods, uh, I'd have to throw out my fifth one here since we're on that topic. Okay. Um, Gary's mod, uh, I don't know if you've played it, but Gary's mod is just the adult version of Minecraft for. Uh, because you can do anything on that game, like literally. Um, I, the possibilities are endless. I also moved over to that and kind of learned Lua scripting with that too, and had my own server for like role play and things like that, and, there was a mod on there called cinema, and you basically hang out and watch movies with friends. It's just like a, a YouTube player inside of the game. Nothing special. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I got my inspiration for my second game off that movie Quest. You know, I, I kind of did a spinoff on that and, and, you know, people. can watch movies in like a virtual theater. So let's

dive into your games here. Let's start with Movie Quest. Can you tell us more about the inspiration behind the game? I know you alluded to the game a minute ago, but let's dive deeper into it.

Well, movie Quest is more of like just a virtual online theater. It was a lot of, uh, all the Covid thing going around at the time. Mm-hmm. and all that. And, you know, I really loved going to the movie theater and I couldn't, it was closed and it just bothered me. And so I recreated like a nineties. Movie theater, like old school movie theater. You know, you go with the arcade and you can play Flappy Bird in there and all that. Um, I dunno, maybe you got friends all over the world and sometimes it's hard to get together and watch a movie sometimes, you know, you can do the voice calls and all that, but it's not the same. Um, but with movie quests, you can basically, um, you can, you know, role play and, and watch. A movie synced together in time. Um, and I'm playing a lot of older movies cuz of the copyright issues. Uh, you know, I can't obviously play new movies. I don't have rights to it, but I'm playing, you know, public domain movies. Yeah, that makes sense. Night of the Living Dead, uh, you know, little Chaba Horrors classics that a lot of people haven't seen yet too, which is pretty cool. Kind of re re-imagining. in a more setting where you can like do quests and stuff like that too, like help the janitor clean, clean up, poop out of the bathroom and things like that. It's crazy things.

that, that makes sense. And one of the things that kind of stood out to me when I was in movie Quest is like some of the cool artwork and like the posters you did in that and there, there's some really funny ones in that. There Really, I tried to meme as much as I could. Yeah. And it felt like that, like there was like a a s A spoof on Loki that really caught my eye. And then there was like a couple of meme ones that really just like stood out to me, but. Really cool kick out, just walking down the corridor, going into the different movies. It was almost as fun as just experiencing the movies

themselves. I appreciate it. Yeah. That would try to recreate, you know, that, the whole environment of it. But, um, you know, my first game, uh, was that event, you know, that's not as like in depth and, and things like that. But, uh, I got a huge story about, about all that.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's dive into it. So you're alluding to a story you have to tell, let's hear.

Uh, so yeah. Um, basically years ago I was married, you know, working my butt off at a regular job, you know, with dreams of becoming a game dev and I wanted to make games as a career, but, you know, just messing with Minecraft mods and things like that. Um, you know, started doing like a unity tutorial and, you know, looking at YouTube videos and, uh, just started to like bumble around with games and just play with the editor and. And, uh, my spouse at the time told me it was unrealistic to pursue any kind of career like that. You know, she said that, you know, I should get a, I could get two jobs at like a grocery store or something, and it would be, you know, equivalent to the pay of that. And just kind of knocked me down a little bit with it. And I didn't pursue it. I, I took her advice and I didn't continue. And I ended up just putting it all on a hard drive and, uh, joining the US Army as a rifleman, uh, which is. insane for me. Uh, you know, being a computer guy and all. Yeah. Yeah, man, that was the hardest thing I've ever done physically in my life. I was 28 years old running around with 18 year old kids, football players. They were just out, out doing me physically, you know, and I tried my best. I, I tried best I could. you know, drill sergeants screaming at me saying, this isn't a video game. You can't press X to jump. And Oh, that sucks. Yeah. Like, it sucks. It was bad, but I was doing it for, for my country and I wanted to make something in my life. And, you know, I I, I didn't really know my way. I didn't know what I wanted to be. Um, I, I wanted to be a game developer, but everyone was telling me, no, you, you, you're not gonna be able to do that, especially without money for college or anything, you know? Um, I was just learning online with YouTube and free resources. Um, but, uh, I didn't go on tour or anything. I, I actually got hurt during the end of training and was on crutches for about a year. Oh, no, I hurt my knees pretty bad. I can walk now. I'm good and everything, but you know, it still kind of hurts. I'm still kind of in daily pain with it. Um, but I got medical discharge and was sent home, um, at a later date. Um, so if I wanted to return to, I could, but I don't think, it just wasn't for me, you know, it wasn't my thing. Uh, I tried so many other jobs too, prior, like it and call center, but, um, The funny thing is I actually wanted to be an IT in the army, but the recruiter kind of misled me, uh, to be infantry because there was like a 20 K bonus. Oh, okay. Completing that. Yeah. And they're like, oh, you can get a bunch of money if you get, you know, you get shot at. And I'm like, that's not really what I want to do, but it sounds nice. So I, I, you know, I did it just for the, I figured the money, I could use the money to maybe pay for game for, for school, and they'll pay for my school for game development and whatnot, because that's what I really wanted to do deep down. And uh, once I joined, I found out I didn't qualify for that money because I had a G E D No. And the bonus is only, the bonus is only for high school diploma and it's kind of ridiculous policy they have, but even though it's the same thing, that is crazy. It's crazy. Um, but anyways, I got, after I get discharged, I got home. To my wife, uh, actually, uh, divorcing me for, for being a failure in the military. No, I guess what she called it. Uh, yeah. So I had that. I pretty much lost everything I had, uh, through everything I had left in my car and was kind of homeless for a year in my car driving across the country. No joke,

man. I gotta know what happened

next. I ended up landing a job at a grocery store, um, as pu pushing cart. Wow. And, uh, got in a, an apartment, got back up on my feet. You know, I, I listened, uh, to a lot of motivational speakers and, um, kinda just got my, my head back in the game, you know, like, this, this, this is not you, you know, you need to find your way. Like this is not your way, you know, so, um, had a better job as an it, working from home, um, you know, kind of just on the up and up from there and, and stable. And then, uh, I said, you know, I'm not gonna be complacent with that. I want to be a game developer. You know, I, I, I actually want to do that. Even if, even if it doesn't, nothing comes out of it. At least I can say that I made a game, you know what I mean? Yeah. That's amazing. Like, like a bucket list kind of. Mm-hmm. So I, uh, pulled up my old products and my hard drive, started to make games again while working full-time. Uh, spend about two to four hours each day working, building games and. Became my passion, uh, while also meeting the love of my life, uh, supporting girlfriend now uh, for years. So, um, I had even less time to make games, you know, I was working and af as soon as I got off work, knock out like two hours of the game, you know, learn something for an hour, uh, code something for an hour and just grind at it and grind at it every single day. And, uh, you know, I didn't stop and two years later, My, my game dead event was playable. It's, it's A M M O R P G. And, um, I said, okay, I'm gonna publish it on steam. I bet nobody will play it. You know, I was like, nobody's gonna play this. This is just for my resume. You know, it, it's a hobby and it maybe it'll get me an entry level job as a game developer. that was my whole plan. Like, oh, I can take this and, you know, go to a company and let me answer the phone for you at least to get my foot in the door. You know, I made a game and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. So I told my girlfriend, you know, I don't expect anything. $0 is what I expect. I'm just putting this on my resume. It's a multiplayer game. It's just my hobby, just cuz I didn't want to get my hopes up, you know, been through all that, I, you know, all the troubles I've been through and things like that. And, um, cuz it was still a dream in, in a sense. So, to make a long story short, um, You know, the first month I made $3,000 when I published it.

That's amazing. That

is absolutely amazing. I had no idea that was gonna happen and some indie games don't even make $1. So I was even just blessed to have that. And the next month I ended up quitting my job cause I made another 3000 and, you know, the month following, I ended up going full-time indie game dev because of it. And it was constant. Had a player community growing on Discord. Um, it grew to the point where I had no time to work. I was pull. I had to quit because I was pulling all nighters, grinding, like literally I would, I would be always up working on the game, you know, working my day job, working on the game, and I was getting burned out by working a job and doing game development full-time. So I quit my job and, you know, and, and just kind of went on blindly to, to just follow my dreams and it, you know, came through. I made it. I ended up making $14,000 in six months, um, way more than my $10 an hour job. And that was it. You know, I, I actually am a game developer now and, and no school self-taught, uh, on YouTube, no marketing effort on my part, just word of mouth from the player base. Now I'm at a point where I need to market the game while building them. And, uh, also look forward to, you know, maybe working for a bigger game company with, uh, to expand my portfolio in the gaming industry. And I published my second game in April, movie Quest. Um, and I'm still try striving to do my best. But, you know, all in all it goes to show you, you know, you don't, you don't have to listen what other people are saying, you know? Um, you know, oh, you can't do this. Oh, you can't do that. But do whatever makes you happy, you know, life is too short. First of all, Justin,

thank you so much for your. Next off, that is so inspirational. That is so inspiring. You found yourself at a low point, maybe the lowest in your life, but you kept picking yourself up. You kept clawing towards your dream, and now look at you. You kept going and now look at you. You made two games, both with active communities, despite everything you went through. You did that. You accomplished all that. That is amazing. That's a story that could really motivate someone right now.

That's amazing. And that's what I'm trying to do, you know, and, and, um, part of my inspiration, you know, um, behind it is just being tired of not completing life goals. You know? Um, it, it, you can like make a game from scratch. You know? I can scratch it off my bucket list, you know, now that I made a game, you know, and I wanted to make something enjoyable that I en enjoyed making it too, but, A lot of games are just stale to me right now too, and I just wanted something more for my life. But, um, dead Event, you know, is just like a, a mass multiplayer online, like role playing game with the player grows as a creature and the creature gets bigger and bigger over time. With interactions in the game. And when you die, you lose some of that growth. Um, they can like form a colony and stuff like that and be part of like a player created ecosystem where they eat each other kind of like, uh, um, other games where like, like, like snake, you know, you get bigger, bigger the more you go, but it's like a, a r ppg and you just kind of blew up, you know? I didn't expect it. And like I said, I, I didn't expect anything out of it. It was just trying to do that for my resume to kind of build my p.

That's amazing. And I think it's that old saying, if you work for your dreams, then one day your dreams could work for you. It's like you are. Yeah. I'm like, you're killing it out here and it's a really cool story and I really commend you for, you know, just clawing your way back up and making your dreams happen. Thank you. I appreciate that. So let's dive deeper into Dead Event and Movie Quest. They're, they're both kind of, sure, they're both very different games. So what kind of inspired you to go in such a different direction after Dead Event to movie Quest? You know what I mean? That's

a good question. Yeah. So basically with that, um, being said, I made Dead event realizing it was a niche. and I, I didn't realize it until after, you know, when I started to kind of tell people about it. They're like, oh, you know, it's not my game. It's not my kind of game. You know, I don't play survival PVP games. Mm-hmm. I don't do that. You know, I, I, and it was just, it was hard for me to kind of like get people into the game. Only certain people were like all in. So I thought to myself, and, and my income was starting to go from, the game was going down a little bit, you know, cuz it kind of started to lose traction. And I said to myself, what can I do to gain that traction back? What, what kind of game does everyone like, oh, everyone likes to watch movies. Like who, who doesn't like to watch a movie? You know? So I thought, why don't I recreate all the old classic movies and put them into a game and make my own movie theater? Cuz I, I thought, how cool would it be to open your own movie theater, you know? But I don't have the money for. So I just made it myself, you know what I mean, kind of thing. And now I, I literally am selling advertising spots, if, you know, and, and literally making my own theater. And, uh, movie Quest kind of gave me that traction back. You know, I'm start, it's starting to pick up, and some days it's doing better than my, my, uh, other game. So, you know, the first game was kind of like a trial run, like, is this really happening? And then this, once you do it, the first. It's easier the second time. Like, I slapped that thing out the second time so fast and, and it was like half the time because I knew what I was doing, you know, and the first time I was making the game, I had no idea. I'm just like, you know, banging a hammer on it. Like I have no idea what I'm doing. Um, but the, the second time it was a lot easier.

Yeah, it's almost like that Minecraft effect, you know, the controls now, so everything seems like second nature, you know? Exactly. Yeah. It's like a muscle, it's almost like muscle memory, so to speak. Mm-hmm. you, like, you learn the craft, and now like everything afterwards becomes slightly easier unless you're going in a completely different field, then, you know, there's new challenges with that, but still, I mean, That's amazing. Uh, and, and as a a nineties kid, that was always one of my dreams. It's like, one day I'm gonna get super rich, I'm gonna have my own movie theater. like And you got That's what I, I was

dreaming about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it feels really weird. It's like, I, I do own a movie theater, but it's like, it's so weird because I see people like in it, like I'll go into the theater and I'll actually like see them like sitting down watching a movie. And it's so strange to see like, it. It's really cool actually. in a sense, I'm hope to like reach out to like, uh, you know, big companies like, like Fox and 21 Century. Maybe they'll gimme deals to put their movies in there too, and maybe some YouTubers as well. Um, but yeah, there has a lot of potential behind it. It's kind of just a prototype. The early access right now.

Yeah, I mean that would be really cool, especially to see like other indie movies in that as well. Yeah, true. That would be really dope. I'm a pretty big like anime fan, and recently there was a Fanm made version of like Dragonball Z where this guy like completely remade his adaptation of Dragonball Z, but it kind of paid homage to like, The original version. That's awesome. It blew up on YouTube, but that's beside the point. Like it would be really cool to see something like that in the theater as well.

And I'm open to it. Yeah. I love supporting other, in Indian developers especially, stuff like that, you know, and I really think that, uh, that's something that, you know, we're gonna grow into for sure. Um, but yeah, it, it is pretty challenging, you know, it's to, to do all that. It wasn't easy

Yeah, for sure. So, Here's a segue question, though. It's kind of leans into what we've been talking about with movie Quest, but kind of like in your own personal interest, what's your favorite movie of

all time? Ooh, uh, well, I would probably say, uh, probably Night of the Living Dead, the old one. I actually didn't really think that would be my answer. Mm-hmm. um, But, you know, put on the spot like that and it's just, without thinking about it, that's what came to my head. I didn't watch the full, the full thing and not many people really seen it. Cuz it's like the first zombie movie ever. Yeah. But if you actually watch it, it's a pretty good movie. Um, you'd be surprised, you know, and that's one of the movies playing in my theater as well. Mm-hmm. And I was glad to kind of pay, you know, Amish to that too.

I was hoping you would say something that's not currently in your theater, cuz when you said Night of the Living Dead as, as a person who's experienced movie request, I was like, well that's already there. Cuz I was going to ask you though, what would be like the big, like

if I could put it like a Hollywood, you know, kind of label on it. I would say like, I, I'd probably say I am legend. I like, that'd be, that's a cool movie or, or you know, Just, just, I love a lot, a lot of zombie movies. I'm more of like a show person. Like I, I was really big into Walking Dead. That was my thing for a while. Mm-hmm. um, I heard they're gonna make a movie too, which I'm super excited about, but, Yeah, that I love the, all the zombie stuff. That's, that gets me excited about everything I

gotcha, I gotcha. So a zombie movies such as like, I Am Legend, or maybe like a Walking The Walking Dead movie, or even maybe like a World War Z kind of movie

would be Yeah. Basically is where I fall into. Yeah. I wouldn't say I really have like a, a, a favorite

favorite, so, mm-hmm. I was really curious on what would be like that get hyped. My life is now complete. I got this movie in my movie theater

movie. Well I do that with superhero movies sometimes. Yeah. Like the Thor movies. Mm-hmm. But, uh, those, uh, I expect everyone to get hyped about all the Marvel stuff cuz that's always cool to see, you know? Uh, yeah.

That's really amazing. So let's dive into the game development itself. What were some challenges that you had while developing movie quests and dead event?

Well, uh, I wouldn't say it was anything technical because technical stuff is literally, you can YouTube and nowadays all information's free. Most of it's self-motivation. My players are shocked that 120% of the time I'm on beast mode. You know, I, what I mean by that is I, I'm just shocked that mo more people are not on beast mode with their lives because, um, there's people living paycheck to paycheck that are just comfortable. It's, it's the weirdest thing to me. Um, you know, I, I honestly think people need to follow their dreams. Unless you're, unless you're number one in your industry, you shouldn't be chilling. And if you are number one in your industry, you have enough common sense to know that you better not be chilling still. You know, every single day in my life, I'm getting 120%. I don't have days where I feel like I, I, I don't like it or I don't want to do it. Why? Because, you know, my family's counting on me. I'm counting on me, you know, and, and I don't have days to waste. You know, a lot of people give 50% effort and, um, expect to, to get what, um, the, you know, the people that give 120%. And you, you can't give low effort and get what you want. It's just a fact. You know, I hate, you know, some people don't wanna hear that, but you, you just can't, you gotta give more than you're expected to give. And, um, you don't just wake up in one day and be like, oh, my, my goals are accomplished now what do I do next? You know, that doesn't happen. Like, That, you know, it, it comes with blood, sweat, and tears and hard work and, and beast mode determination. That's when I talk about that, like, you gotta get going, you gotta get hyped about it. You gotta, you know, have fun with it. And especially alone, you know, doing an entire team's worth of work. As an ind Dev is not easy. You're the artist, you're the composer. You can, you can hire people, but usually we don't have money for that. And, uh, some people care about more about watching TV and, you know, than grinding at their dreams. Um, all the information available is available. All the technical information is free on the internet. All you have to do is make it happen. Um, you know, it bothers me when people give up and, and when they come across an obstacle, especially. Um, I think that's the hardest part about it. When you come across an obstacle, people just give up and, you know, like, oh, you know, I, I can't afford assets. Well, there's free assets. Oh, you know, I can't buy assets. There's like $5 assets. The, you know, there's no tools available. Now there's unity, like, oh, you know, I don't have the time. Yeah, you do. What do you do after work? You know, you're just chilling and you want to be a game developer, but you chilling. You know what I'm saying? Um, you need to rise up and, and tell that obstacle, you know, I'm here just like you're here. You know, the obstacle's there, and you're like, I'm here too, and I will not leave without this, without this dream happening. And until I get it, you will not. Like you straight up will not defeat me. And, and I, I get excited about that because I've been through so much hell in my life. You know, there's a huge story when I was a kid too, but that's just a whole nother thing. Um, you know, I'm gonna get something outta my pain and suffering. I, you know, I, I didn't come this far in life to, to, to not do nothing. You know what I mean? And, and life said I can't do it, and I did it. And if I can do it, being homeless outta my car, you can, you can do it too. You can, you can definitely achieve your dreams. You just need to believe in yourself. Never give up. But it's crazy, you know, I'm sitting here wearing a shirt from my game. Look it literal. Look at this,

by the way, is a, this is Insane shirt. Yeah. I like the, I I like that.

Yeah. It's a, it's a creature from one of my games here. Mm-hmm. and, uh, you know, um, a fan made it, uh, as concept art and we started selling merchandise together. You know, I gave him a cut of it, uh, with what we sell. And I never thought, you know, I'd be at this point, Would I be selling merchandise with my game? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like that was never even a thought in my head. And I, here I am making it happen because of, like I talked about beast mode, you gotta go 120%, gotta put in the effort. Um, otherwise it's just gonna stay a thought in your head. You know, life

is great. What did that feel like? What did it feel like to get a shirt made after something you created? Once

it

came in the mail, I like almost screamed. It was so exciting. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Even if, mm-hmm. I came, didn't make millions of dollars, I just made enough to quit my job, you know, life is crazy and, and, and it's not easy, but. You gotta get something out of it. You know, you, you gotta overcome and you, you, everyone goes through something and, and you gotta get something out of it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, you can't just be like, oh, you know, maybe one day I'll make a game. And then you're, you know, you're 70 years old and you're like, oh, too late. And you still make a game at 70, believe it or not. But, uh, you gotta just apply yourself. You know what I. You can't wait till you're on your deathbed saying, oh, I, I, you know, I have to make a game, or, you know, I'm gonna do this and that. But you gotta, you gotta give it 120, not 90, not 50, not a hundred. You gotta give it 120. You gotta give her everything because time is the most valuable thing. You can make money, but time is is always against you. That's

amazing. That is amazing. I, I admire your mental fortitude because not everyone has that drive and determination. I mean, it is, it is one of those things, you, you were alluding to it earlier and it's hard on, on some days, especially when you're like, when that complacency sits in, when that like Yep. When you get lazy, complacent, yeah. When that laziness sits in, that complacency sits in, it's, it's all, it's the easy thing to just sit down and just watch a show or like Yeah, say that I'll do it. Yeah. You know? Exactly, exactly. It's that easy thing to procrastinate, but to really give it 110%, 150% to really push yourself when you really don't feel like doing it, and that's when you actually start to see the results. Like it's a compound effect and you make

it happen with your life, you know? Mm-hmm. you manifest it cuz you could literally sit there and do nothing and nothing will. or you can just do it, it'll be painful. I, I'm not gonna say it was easy. Like I, I was singing and dancing the whole time I making games, there was, there was times that I about cried and there was times that I about was like, you know, this is, I'm done. This is, this is hard. And then the next day I just hit it again. You know what I mean? And just scratch at it until it broke and it just, Grew into all the, the pain and effort that I went through just became something, you know what I mean? Cuz you don't do all that for nothing. No. And even if, you know, even if you don't make money off your game, you know, or, or whatever you do, at least you, you did it. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It's almost like climbing a mountain. You know how they say Yeah. Like you, you're not really giving money for climbing a mountain or running a marathon, but you it that but personal. Yeah, yeah. You did it. It's that personal satisfaction

and it's those little goals that have Why do you think, and I learned this from the military too, uh, why do you think they may have you make your bed perfectly in the military? No one knows. They just think they, they, they yell at you to make your bed knows cuz they're trying. Get you to complete one goal. When you wake up, an easy goal, you make your bed, boom, there's a goal. It gives you momentum for the next goal you made breakfast, boom, there's the next goal. You go to work, boom, there's the next goal. You set small goals for yourself, and then those small goals. you'll be like, you'll get such a repetition of winning and, and doing all these goals that when you go up against something big, like, oh, make a game, boom. There it is. You know what I mean? Like you just make it happen. Yeah. But you gotta be bigger than the obstacles. You have to.

That's amazing. That is amazing. Justin. It is amazing that you were able to overcome that and still have this mental fortitude, this mentality, this like never say die attitude of like, I can make it, I can claw myself there if I got to. That is my last breath. It's. Yeah, for sure,

for sure. I just, you know, I want something more in my life. You know, you, you're tired of, you know, and I bet I could speak for a lot of people. It gets tiring doing the same job every day. Oh yeah, for sure. And you have to do it for your family. I'm not saying quit your job. No. Uh, I worked a job for over five years while making a game two, three hours a day. Sometimes I only got to touch the game for 20 minutes, five minutes. Literally. I remember my, my wife calling me to bed saying, Hey, it's time to, you know, let's, it's three in the morning. Maybe you should get up, uh, you know, quick five minutes and make and code this line. You know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. five minutes here, five minutes there. They all. You know what I mean? And, and I really think that, um, I've sacrificed a lot to get here. Um, it wasn't easy and, and I think that anybody can do it cuz I, like I said, I was literally working dead end jobs in a call center, uh, you know, kind of. Doing nothing with my life. I lived out of my car for almost a year and now I'm literally a game developer. It's insane.

That is, and it's really cool how you got here. Let me throw a curve ball at you. Sure. Let me give you, sure. This is a question that is completely out of the blue, but you are someone who's very driven. You're someone who, who can see a purpose through like, If you were given, uh, unlimited funds, let's say a Microsoft or a Sony, or even maybe like a, a steam through like unlimited money at you, what type of game would you wanna make? Oh, man. What would be like the big budget Justin, sour J type of game?

Well, I think that, man, you got me on this one. Yeah. You know, I, I really think there's a lot of competition out there, first of all. Mm-hmm. and you really gotta do something. and that's kind of what I did with Movie Quest, is kind of do something different. So if I had a unlimited money, what I would do is probably make like a new survival game to, to compete with Rust. Um, I don't know if you've ever seen Rust, but mm-hmm. Um, I feel like the game is like super toxic and it's unenjoyable, but it has a good game mechanics, uh, for, you know, that kind of game. I feel like I would make the next best survival game, you know? Um, there's a lot of that, that kind of genre is a little bit dying and it's kind of just like rust and, you know, I, I like the whole, just like Minecraft, you know, you start out, you get some wood, you build a house, that's like my thing. So I would kind of take it to the next level, um, in that senate sense and mix it, you know, with other genres. I would

be on board to play that. That sounds like a game I completely like jump into because yeah, like you said, I, I don't necessarily like arrest for the reasons you listed. I like the mechanics of it, but I don't necessarily like the community

asking. Yeah. As soon as you spun in, you get killed with someone with a rock, like literally some naked guy with a rock, like immediately and it, and he's like swearing at you in the mic and you're just like, okay, I'm just gonna like, uh, log off now. I. Yeah, sure. Like you didn't even get a chance, you know what I mean? Like, they, they could have been done better and that's such a big company, you know? Um, not, not to talk bad about it, cuz I respect the creators, but the thing is, oh yeah, for sure, sure. They need to have you spawn in a safe zone, you know, you can't spawn around a map. There needs to be some sort of, you know, area, protected area that you spawn in and, and you know, more of like a town and things like that. I just think it could have been done, executed better, um, you know, more levels to travel to and things like.

Yeah, I get it completely. We're not talking bad about that game itself, it's just that Oh, of course. Yeah. We we're just saying it, it could go in a completely different direction that would probably have some more user-friendly experiences involved. Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree

with that. I'm just saying though, um, the reason I mentioned the bad thing is cuz those creators have the money to do it. Why don't for sure do it. Like, that's what gets me about AAA Game Studios is that, you know, they have so much money and it just seems like they, for once they get that money, they forget about what the players actually. If you look at the reviews on Rust, literally says like, spawn in and die. This isn't fun, kind of thing. And you know, they're making so much money off of people that enjoy that toxicity that they don't really care. And they kind of lost that whole thing. And, you know, the first, the creator of Rust, he, he made Gary's mod prior and that had so much passion into it. And then this game, it seems like it was just like a money crap in my sense. And I, I really just think that. it could be better and, and they could have done it way better. And that's the thing with indie devs is we can outwork AAA studios by listening to the community, cuz that's where we stand out. And as an indie dev, you gotta listen to your community because building up that community is what's gonna keep you as a developer.

That makes so much sense. I'm gonna throw an idea at you. You and I talking kind of gave me an idea. Um, sure. And feel free to veto this, like, I love what you're doing with Movie Quest. Have you ever thought about taking it a in a different direction? Maybe doing a side game called like Concert Quest.

I think that'd be beautiful. That's funny you mentioned mm-hmm. I actually wanted to, at one point when I first made movie Quest, it was kind of like a venue, like it wasn't a movie theater, it was like a, um, a lobby venue and I was gonna have movies there that people could play. Yeah. YouTube things I could play. And I was planning on opening the front doors and having like an outdoor concert stage where people can do karaoke and things like that. Like with your microphone, like it'd be funny. I thought it'd be h. To see like people really actually singing to songs and stuff like that and uh, or bands playing and having a virtual concert there, um, and things like that. Um, you know, e d m artists would be really interested in it, so that is a great idea. I thought of it, but I just went to the movie direction route so it wouldn't be something that would be hard for me to create an actual, probably might steal that idea, but No, I'm just kidding. No, no. Glad to get together on that

Yeah, for sure, for sure. But yeah, I was just thinking about it cuz. The concept that you have with Movie Quest, you can very much spin it off into a virtual concert, uh, like concert kind of adaptations there. And you can like, maybe call it Concert Quest. You can have like, oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. You can have three different venues kind of going on. It can kind of almost be like Coachella meets and meets like maybe that EDM vibe or, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, while we were talking about it, I was thinking. Like virtual cons. Uh, concerts are like the big rage right now, especially when you see like Fortnite, how you see like Travis Scott or Ariana Grande. Yeah, they're all doing concerts right now. And I was thinking like movie Quest is a very cool idea, especially in this, um, in like pandemic world that we're living in right now. And you know, the movies are just now starting to get momentum, starting to get their footing, but I feel like they only got their footing with like major movie. Like Top Gun, Marvel movies. Exactly. That sort thing. No one's, no one's really rushing out to the theater right now to see like, smaller scale movies

is especially not public. No. Uh, domain movies you can see for free. Um, that's why I kind of did like a prototype, like, let's see if I can show movies like this. Is this possible? Like, I didn't even know if I could pull it off, you know? Yeah. It was like a Frankenstein when I started it up, like, it's alive. I can't believe it. You know? Mm-hmm. Um, but it, it works and, and I really think that that would be a great. uh, to do that stuff too. So, and I'm always open to, to ideas. Cause that's, that's the thing, like as a creator of any kind, you know, you have to have that open mind. So Yeah, for sure. For

sure. Not trying to pressure you into No, no anything by no means. I was just like, oh, that'd be a pretty cool concept as

well. And it's a really good idea actually. And, uh, I think that that could go a long way. Um, but, um, have you ever seen mystery science. That name sounds familiar. It's basically a show where, um, guys sat, like you could see like their, their chairs, like the back of their heads in the theater. Mm-hmm. And they, it was like a robot and like a guy, like a couple robots. And they would commentate on bad movies. They would watch free movies. Oh, okay. And they would commentate in, like, kind of do voiceovers, like mm-hmm. taco, like, like. Lip sync, like talk over the person that's talking in the movie mm-hmm. and make fun of it. Mm-hmm. And that's kind of where I got like a lot of inspiration for movie Quest too. Like, I thought it'd be funny to kind of do that with your friends. Like go see like an old movie and just like, laugh about it or something, you know? Yeah, for sure. And, and talk about it. But yeah, it's, it's, uh, Pretty cool. First

of all, Saja, I want to thank you so much for being on the show. I want to thank you for sharing your experiences, your personal journey, your personal story, and hanging out with me for a bit to talk about your two games, movie Quest and Dead Event. I'm so glad you came on the show today because you really are a cool story and an inspirational story that I think people need to know about. And once again, I thank you for taking the time to really just diving in with your life story that was really brave of

you. Absolutely. You know, and I, I look to be an inspiration for not just any game developers, but for anyone really, you know, anybody can, if I can do it, you can. Let's just put it that way. Mm-hmm. you know, I remember literally eating trash out of while I was homeless and, and now, you know, I got to order some food, so, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I didn't, it didn't just wake up like that, you know? And you gotta work. Yeah, for

sure, for sure. So before we go, do you have any um, plugs or anything you wanna shout out? Where can the good people find

ya? Well, um, first of all, I want to shout out to, to you and, uh, I appreciate the, the Pro Nerd podcast for having me. I'm a huge fan of your show. Thank you. I love it. You. And, uh, you can find me on Twitter, uh, at Sour J The Creator. I'll also be doing YouTube Tips and Motivation, uh, YouTube videos for game development. Um, I appreciate your time and thank you for having

me. Ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna have both the links to his social media accounts and his YouTube channel and the episode's description, so be on the lookout for that whenever the episode launches. Thank you again Justin. Uh, we really appreciated you coming and spending some time with us today, and I can't wait to see what you're do in the future. And anytime you're ready to share about like a big game development or maybe even a huge update for either one of these games, just hit me up. We're, we're gonna have you back on

the. I have. I appreciate your time and uh, have a

good one. So that's a wrap for today's episode. I want to thank Justin aka Sour J, for joining the show today. So that's a wrap for today's episode. I wanna give a special shout out to Alec to, for being on the show today. I also wanna let you know about the single player experience Discord server. It's the perfect place for single player gamers to talk about the good single player games they've been playing lately, and to get video game recommendations. Think of it kind of like a book club for single player gamers. The link to join will be in the description. Once you're in, feel free to share your video game backlog list. Talk about the good games you've been playing, or give your feedback on the show if you have a game that you think should be recommended or that you think I should talk about. Let me know in the single Player Experience Discord server. I'll see you there. Before we go, I just want to thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Stay safe, stay gamming, and I hope to catch you in the next one. Peace.