The Project Manager of Cygnus Studios, Alec Taub Joins the Show to give us insight on Cygnus Racing League and Video Game Development!

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The Project Manager of Cygnus Studios, Alec Taub Joins the Show to give us insight on Cygnus Racing League and Video Game Development!

On today’s Episode, we have The Project Manager of Cygnus Studios, Alec Taub on the show to talk about their hot upcoming game, Cygnus Racing League, and much more! In this Episode, Alec informs us about the challenges of making a video game in 2022. He also gives some great advice for people who want to get into the game development field.

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Sebastion Mauldin

Transcript
Sebastion:

what's up and welcome to the Single Player Experience. As always, I'm your host Sebastian Mountain, and today we got a good episode for you. We got the project manager of Cigna Studios, Alec to, to join the show today to talk about their upcoming fun games Sickness League racing. He's also gonna inform us about some challenges in making a video game in modern day times. Andy's gonna give some advice for people who want to get in the gaming industry, in the gaming development field. We got all this and more coming right at you right after the intro. DJ start the intro. Mine. How you doing today?

Alec:

Good,

Sebastion:

how are you? I'm fine, I'm fine. Welcome, Alec. We're glad to have you on the show. So introduce yourself to the audience. Tell us about.

Alec:

Yes. Well, I am the project manager at Cigna Studios. Um, that's just sort of one title, obviously with a team of three people. Uh, you wear many hats, so, uh, I'm also one of the graphic designers, one of the music designers, one of the sound designers, uh, run the social media marketing, the pr, uh, yeah, There are many things that fall under the umbrella when it comes to indie development.

Sebastion:

So we're gonna get into the game in a second. But before I do that, for every new guest we have on the show, we like to have a segment called Putting You on the Spot. We want to find out more about you. So I'm gonna ask you your top five. So your top five specifically is what's your top five video games of all

Alec:

time? Oh, you know, I'd like to say that I picked really artsy choices, but I can't, um, uh, FIFA is my number one. I, I. even though I know it's universally hated, I, I'm addicted to it. I've been playing it since, uh, FIFA World Cup 2006. There's not of hour. Uh, Tottenham Hot Spur. Come on, you Spurs. Come on, you Spurs. Um, but yeah, so FIFA's the number one, but playing that for years and years and years. Um, uh, battlefield, that's another top one. Uh, whether it was Battlefield one, battlefield Four, battlefield. I've really enjoyed all of those 2042 s growing on me. It's a slow process. They're making changes. Um, as a kid, I used to love Elder Scrolls. Oblivion. That was another really big one for me. Um,

Sebastion:

My favorite one as the, out of all the elders girls, is oblivion as

Alec:

well. Right. I was actually just talking about this with a, with a friend the other day. Like, I like Skyrim a lot, but the aesthetic of of E es four was just magnificent. It's, it's very d and d esque. Very, it's just phenomenal. It's a great game. It really is. I think it

Sebastion:

had the bitter story. Like I know Sky Room always, you know, gets like the, the hand and shoulders like above that game. I think like oblivion is like underrated. Story-wise, I think it's underrated, like gameplay wise. The guilds are fantastic. All those side quests are amazing and the fact that you're not like the one who has to save the world is like a refreshing take on like video game

Alec:

storytelling. Completely agreed. In fact, I, I recently just started getting into mage based characters, cuz I was always more of the sword shield kind of guy, or the biggest ax you could find And, uh, after playing the, the, I guess it's the majors. Guild. It's not the Guild, what is it? It's the school at In in Skyrim after playing that, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. After playing that and then actually playing the Majors Guild and just how much more in depth the Majors Guild was in comparison to the College of Winter. winter hold. I was like, this is kind of crazy how far they went back in comparison to what a Masterpiece Oblivion was.

Sebastion:

Yeah. It's like they went backwards and it sucks because I'm like, they really had the system nailed down in, in oblivion. I don't know why they went backwards.

Alec:

Yeah. I think it's, they tried to do something different, which again, I appreciate, like I, I appreciate how Bethesda I try, tries to do different storytelling. It's, it's, it's a hard follow up on that one. It really is. So I think that's three right? Yes. Uh, so another one probably the game that started at all for me was Halflife. Uh, we played the original Halflife as kids in that game. I've, I've replayed, halflife way more than I should. I understand.

Sebastion:

I just now like, am diving into Alex, like half, half, half. And this is Oh yeah. Yeah. Like I am so excited to really like, dive into it, but I've only had like the headset for a couple of days,

Alec:

so Oh, I feel it. Yeah. From our perspective, valve is like our. That's who we sort of base ourselves off of cuz their approach to storytelling and technology is just, is second to none. Like Valve is just an absolutely incredible company. Um, so, and of course it all started with half-life, and it's hilarious to hear them talk about how they made the game because they had the technology and the story was second. Yet, the story is

Sebastion:

so good. It really is phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Probably one of the better stories of all time. Like it really Is that good? Yeah. Yeah.

Alec:

It's, it's, it's just, it, it blows my mind that that's the secondary thought for them is, oh yeah, I guess we'll throw a story over this.

Sebastion:

Yeah. So number five. What we, what,

Alec:

uh, number five, the one that I played to death as a kid was Star Wars Jedi Night Jedi Academy. Um, oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Uh, that game, we, we grew up obviously on all the Star Wars games. Mm-hmm. or the late nineties Star Wars games as kids. And then to get sort of a game where you could make your own protagonist and then make your own decisions within the Star Wars universe was mind blowing. uh, as a small kid. So now it's, I'm, I'm excited to see if we're returning to that now with Star Wars games.

Sebastion:

Oh, okay. That's dope. I, when you were like, starting off in saying like, star Wars, I thought you were gonna go cold tour route, like mm-hmm. And so you kind of surprised me with that choice.

Alec:

Cottor is amazing. I, and the older I get, the more I appreciate Cottor, but as, see how old, like Jedi, Jedi Academy came out in like 2003? Mm-hmm. So I was like seven or eight. So f for my, for my little brain, I couldn't comprehend. Cottor. Yeah.

Sebastion:

Yeah. The term based thing is like so different too. You know?

Alec:

very much so. So I didn't have the patience for that as a kid and uh, you know, Jedi Academy was like real time. So I could get into

Sebastion:

that a. That is so cool. So now that we've got to know you a little bit, let's talk about your game sickness racing.

Alec:

Yeah, so Sickness Racing League is a multiplayer based battle racer, um, that takes a lot of arcade influences and is, it's in early alpha, so we're, we're very early on in development and we're really developing with the goal of having the community help shape the game. Um, the community response so far has been incredible. Uh, I, a lot of people are being real patient with us, understanding that we're a small team and understanding that, you know, to make the changes that we wanna make to make this game, you know, something that a community can really get behind takes time. Um, so right now we're working on an absolutely huge overhaul of the game. As we as the original goal was sort of just to port the game over to PC and then start to get an audience reaction. Now that we have that audience reaction, we're working on a big overhaul that originally started off as just an event, but is now gonna become the entire theme of the game. So we're gonna be sort of a vapor, wave based battle racer, um, with all kinds of crossovers and the, uh, Uh, gameplay similar to Rocket League or Burnout or Twisted Metal. Um, so we're really excited to, uh, see what next month brings. That

Sebastion:

sounds really cool. So what was the inspiration behind the game? Like what got y'all started with this project?

Alec:

Yeah, so I initially started game development, uh, in late 2018. Uh, my brother had just graduated from uc, Davis, uh, with his degree in, uh, computer. Computer science. Mm-hmm. And he and another friend who had also just graduated, sort of got together and they were trying to think about, you know, what they wanted to do with their lives. Um, and they sort of, you know, being gamers, they were like, well, we could do that. So they started off initially with a super ambitious idea. Um, and when I came back, cuz I was at at school at the time as well, when I came back over winter break, they sort of approached me and were like, Hey, we kind of need somebody to be sort of the project manager of this. And so I stepped in as project manager. We sort of planned out how we were gonna approach, you know, this really big project. And initially the project was, was going to be sort of like a, um, a no man sky kind of game or a. Oh, what's the one that's coming out with Bethe? Bethesda. Starfield. Yes. Starfield. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we were thinking about a game in that vein. Um, but then we started to realize as it was going on that we were taking on a really, really complex project that was going to take years and years and years and years of work, especially for a small team of three people. Um, so we decided to sort of shift gears and at least just get into game development as a whole so that we. Have a sense of idea and scope of what we were trying to build. So we sort of came back around to that sort of twisted metal idea. Um, we wanted to build games that were within the same universe as our, as the main game that we were looking at. And so, uh, you know, having played Twisted Metal, I think it was on PlayStation one. As a kid, we really, really enjoyed that game. Um, and we wanted to make a mobile game and we really hadn't come across any mobile games that were like that. So we're like, okay, let's try to make a futuristic sort of version of Twisted Metal. Um, and then it sort of has developed into sort of its own thing as time has gone on, it's, uh, there was a time where we thought it was gonna be a battle royale, and then it sort of shifted into a battle racer. And now we're bringing in a new five v five game mode. In this next update, uh, that's gonna be almost like quiddage. So

undefined:

we're

Sebastion:

really Oh, that's dope. That is a really cool idea. As a Harry Potter stand, I'm like, that's right on my alley right there. Yeah. So when's part of that choice?

Alec:

Yeah, so we, we, we have been sort of just going along the ride of when we. you know, come up with a concept of, you know, trying to get the most out of it. Uh, especially because, as I said, we are a small team, so trying to find a way to get as much out of what we can do is really the value of what we're trying to do at our company. Oh, that's really

Sebastion:

cool. And that's a really, really cool take to have as well. Like, I'm excited that you, you won me over with the Harry Potter, like five V five Quiddage style. I'm like, that sounds amazing. Especially in a racer like. that's like, it's revolutionary. And I can't think of another game that's ever done that

Alec:

well. That's why we were kind of excited for it, is we weren't, you know, initially thinking about, or when we were initially thinking about games, we're like, how do we do something that's different? Um, and so, uh, My older brother, Zachary, who's the lead programmer, was like, well, what if we did a five E five mode? Where, you know, you have two players who are the lap runners and they are the ones trying to complete as many laps as possible, and what if all the rest of the team is either trying to protect their runner or kill the other person's runner? I was like, I haven't heard of anything like that. That's a really good idea. And so then it's trying to find things like, okay, how do we replicate, you know, maybe having something similar to a golden snitch kind of thing where, you know, you can earn a bunch of points if you go off and do this sort of side thing in the middle of it. So we're, we're still playing around with certain aspects of it, um, but we're really excited to debut it. Uh, next.

Sebastion:

That, that's really cool. Especially like from a sports perspective. I'm like, especially if like you have like a different like point system for like, you know, being able to tackle like the, the snitch so to speak. I'm like, that sounds amazing. That sounds like something that I'd really be into. And like lowkey, it kind of sounds like, like a modern like five V five take on like the Rocket League scoring system, but in a like twisted metal way and I'm like, that's innovative. I like.

Alec:

Yeah. That again, we, that was kind of our goal and it didn't, the goal sort of developed organically cuz we started playing around with a new physics system cuz our community was unhappy with the movement system. Mm-hmm. which was fair. Um, we were trying to develop, uh, you know, a movement system that was coming from mobile to pc and it was not something that we felt entirely comfortable with. So then when we got some really good feedback, We sort of were trying to break the physics of our game. We sort of came up with something that felt similar to a Rocket League style movement and we're like, okay, well then how can we incorporate that into our game? And. Low and behold, that's how that game mode came about, and we're really, really excited. I, I'm really excited for one map in particular that's gonna pit sort of the two teams on opposite skyscrapers, and they're gonna be bouncing from the, they're gonna be driving up the sides of buildings and trying to hop over buildings to get to the very finish line at the other end. Of course, while trying to blow each other up. It's gonna be pure chaos, which is what we live for

Sebastion:

That is absolutely fun. Like that sounds like a really good time. So let me ask you, what are some challenges to making a game in 2022?

Alec:

So the biggest challenge for us is standing out. Um, we are in a market that is filled with incredible developers, um, both AAA and Andy. Um, and that has its own pitfalls as well. Obviously, being an indie company, we don't have the resources that an EA or an Ubisoft or mm-hmm. or an epic has. So trying to come up with a way to stand out in that crowd is really, really difficult. Uh, for us, we found that it's, you know, trying to be somebody who not only is supportive of our community and really listening to what our community has to say, but trying to be supportive of everybody else's community as well. Uh, the indie develop. The indie dev community as a whole is just amazing. Um, all, everybody is so supportive of each other, so being able to give back to them is, is awesome. And to be a part of that as well as, you know, fostering a community of your own and being able to give. you know, hopefully hours of enjoyment to a bunch of people is really, really fulfilling. So trying to stand out in that massive crowd is difficult. Um, but overall it's, it's been pretty good. Um, sort of the o the only other problem, or the biggest challenge that I can think of is also keeping up with technology. Um, I think we see it now with Unreal Engine five coming out. Um, being able to pick a game engine is, is a difficult choice with how quickly things are moving and knowing what platform to develop for, and the pitfalls that come with working with the companies that own those. Um mm-hmm. own those different platforms as well. So there's, there's definitely a lot of aspects that you need to consider when indie developing, but those are, I would say the two probably biggest challenges are. Yeah. The just standing out and being able to keep up with the technology.

Sebastion:

So about the game engines, like, do you think that's like the most stressful decision y'all have had like so far in the, in the development cycle is like, whoa, are we actually gonna commit to this engine? Or you know, like, cuz that sounds like you, like when you brought that up I was thinking like, man, that sounds almost like, like marriage, so to speak. You're, you're committed at that point from this day forward and

Alec:

it's crazy. It is. So, uh, initially with our, with our original game idea, um, we actually built our own engine because we were unhappy with the engine capabilities that were available to us at that point. Um, and so everything that we've done, we've built in-house, uh, both in terms of game engine and assets. Yeah, I mean, you're ex, you've exactly what you're talking about. It's, you know, because for Epic is, or the Epic Engine's a really great example that engine has been worked on for. What, 30 years now? 40 years. I mean, they've been around for a very long time. So how does an engine that we've built in, you know, two to three years, how can we stack it up against an engine that's been around that has billions of dollars of investment and has hundreds of people that are constantly working on improving it? So exactly what you're talking about, it's trying to find. Trying to see how you stack up against, you know, not only the AAA companies and what you can bring, um, but also, you know, are the decisions that you're making in-house the best decisions to make given the assets and tools that are available to us. Um, I know there's a big debate over, I can't remember the other graphical design. Uh, program, but we use Blender. Mm-hmm. and we use Blender cuz it's free. I mean, but the community that helps Foster that is incredible. And it's like, okay, how, how do you move away from Blender to potentially a different, um, 3D design software when you have such amazing things in house? But like, these are the questions that we constantly have to ask ourselves. Cuz yeah, it's, it's really hard to stay relevant when the software around you's moving. So,

Sebastion:

It really is nice that you have a community like the Blender community to like kind of like lean back on, so to speak. Cuz I'm like, from what I hear, like they are very much, you know, accepting and, you know, accommodating for a lot of different things. And then like the F FAQs, like they are very much like a community, like a real life community over there. So that's really cool that you have that resource.

Alec:

The Blender community. It's, it's actually insane that it's a real thing that you don't have to pay for. Yeah. It's the things that they are able to produce out of that software. It never ceases to amaze me. And on top of it, as you said, they are so welcoming. They are so accepting, and they are so willing to help. Um, I definitely would not have been able to build a game, let alone build a single asset if we didn't have the resources that were available on YouTube that were able to provide those things. Mm-hmm. um, to be able to hear. How people are doing things within Blender and design is critical to how we approach how we design ships or how we design buildings, um, cuz you're always looking to be able to do it better, cleaner and more efficiently. And again, blender and the resources that are available to it and the people involved with it are constantly improv.

Sebastion:

That is really cool. So how long have y'all been working on this game?

Alec:

So in this, on the PC port in total, it's only been a year, which is okay. It's crazy to me that it's only been a year and considering how far we've come with it. Um, but in total on Sickness Racing League, cuz we initially started out on mobile, uh, we started developing a, oh, excuse me, in late 2019. Okay. So it's been, it's been a couple of years.

Sebastion:

No, but like, do, do you like, feel like, like as the game's growing, you're growing as a person as well?

Alec:

For sure, for sure. Um, when I started off in game development, I mean, I got my degree in communication and, and I same took a I, oh, there you go. So I took a class. Video game research and I kind of learned a little bit in that class, but I didn't, most of the things that I'm doing on a daily basis, aside from the social media marketing stuff, have nothing to do with my degree path. So, uh, learning how to use blender from day one to now has been, has been an epic journey for sure. Um,

Sebastion:

it's almost like learning a foreign

Alec:

language, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It's crazy cuz when you initially start, you're just trying to build whatever and you kind of build it poorly, but you're satisfied with the results and you'll just come back like maybe even a month later and it's not a tremendous amount of time and you just see it and you go, oh my God, that is garbage. And you destroy the entire thing and rebuild it from scratch. Um, I know when we were starting our initial PC port, um, it had been. Probably close to a year since I had worked on ship models and returning to it, and then seeing the wasted vertices and seeing the broken geometry. I was like, how did anybody allow me to build a game, So it's, it's definitely been a process, but it's been a very worthwhile process. Um, it's been a very satisfying process as well to not only see the growth and certain things like that, but also the understanding of just how game development works in general. I definitely feel a lot more sympathy for AAA developers, uh, having started where I started. Um, You know, a couple years ago, cuz it helps me understand, you know, things like the cyberpunk problem. Yeah. Um, where it's just, it's more about the people who are pushing developers to their brink, um, and really keeping really strict time constraints that makes things very difficult for large groups of people to be able to produce a game that isn't broken and isn't buggy. there's a lot of shortcuts that are taken when you're putting those kinds of time constraints in. So, um, yeah, my understanding and, and uh, empathy for, for developers everywhere has grown tremendously as well as my amazement. I mean, again, the things that people are producing now are just absolutely incredible. I mean, the gaming. The game, the video game scene has just grown so immensely and the technology is so readily available for everyone that the, the things that people are producing are absolutely mind blowing.

Sebastion:

Yeah. To echo what you're saying, it's like, it's sort of hard for like people who have never like experienced in, you know, the other side of the fence, like the, the actual development cycle to actually see like all the effort that goes into like, making something like this. This is almost the equivalent of like a person building a house, so to speak. You know, like mm-hmm. you are legitimately building something with your bare hands that not everyone can do. You know, like you have to have like that knowledge and that, that like know-how to actually do these things and then. It's, I, I hate that. You know, like sometimes like people don't remember that these are people too who are working on this. Like these are real human beings that are working on like the cyberpunks of the world. Mm-hmm. and you know, like, so it's a little disappointing, you know, when people like overreact to like, you know, a game being, you know, not as quite as polished as it could have been. Or, you know, like, not quite as satisfactory as they would like, because I'm like, these people worked for like, for five years in some cases. I mean even longer, you know? Yeah, to work on this project. So you do have to re remember like there are humans behind the actual like IP as well. But man, yeah, it is, it's crazy though. Like, do you think, so my next question, do you think like, besides this, you know, like. This game right now? Like, do you think this game will go in another direction in the future? As far as like, cuz y'all are constantly innovating, you're constantly adjusting you, you're making different modes and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. do you think like this is going to be like the final, like these are the final modes that are in the game? Or do you feel like it's gonna adjust even further?

Alec:

Yeah, it's, it's, if anything, especially now, because I remember, I, I, I, you, I bet you remember this as a kid, it's like you got excited for expansion packs. It's like, oh man. You would get, you know, I, I think it was, I think it was the first Call of Duty came with like two different expansion packs that came out, like a year or two after it, and you'd play it, and it was really exciting. But now, everything, today's live service. Even, uh, destiny two, again, the game that I've been absolutely playing to death lately, uh, it's like they've gone through three or two or three different seasonal events in the matter of three weeks. Like, you're just constantly getting new and new content. And it's sort of the same thing with us. I mean, uh, with any live service multiplayer game, you're looking to constantly bring in new game modes and also trying to see what sticks. Um, you know, in the case of Fortnite, for them it was getting rid of. and you know, making the game even more bare bones and people really gravitated towards that. And it's the same thing with us. You know, we wanna provide different game modes that people like, and you know, you're gonna try different game modes and some things will stick and then some things won't. Um, and it's the community that's really gonna dictate what they want out of the experience, whether they want us to. you know, make movement more complex or make movement even simpler. Um, whether they want, uh, you know, different combat things, whether they want us to nerf different things. So these are constantly things that we are, uh, because we're in constant communication with our community, um, that we are constantly building and adjusting and yeah, we want to keep adding new tracks and new maps and new game modes and new ships, and we wanna keep people, uh, playing this game for as long as.

Sebastion:

so that, like, when you were talking, I was also thinking of like a question, like, how much research do y'all do in like, with like this genre of games because you're, you're in a multiple, like faceted genre of like, you're a battle, you know, racer, you know mm-hmm. So I'm like, you have like shooting mechanics to a certain extent, and then you also have the racing side of things like. where does your research come from? I'm like, are you playing twisted metal all the time? did. Did you look? Did you look at destruction all stars and think like, okay, that didn't work in, in these aspects. I'm like, okay, crash team work racing works like in these aspects. Like, you know, Mario Cart works in these aspects. Like where does the inspiration come from? I'm like, where's the

Alec:

research come? it comes from it, like you just said, everywhere. It's, um, because there's so many aspects to the game, it's, you have to sort of break down. And this is sort of the, the fun thing about game development is playing other games and seeing how people tackled similar issues. Mm-hmm. um, To the shooting, right? So just the combat features. It's like, okay, let's look at the popular combat games. And you look and it's, oh, Counterstrike, and you have Call of Duty and you have Halo. And so you go off and you play those things and you come back and you go, okay, what are aspects that they're doing that we don't have? And it's, oh, well they have this special effect. Or, oh, you know, they have this way of aiming that we could incorporate or. one of the questions that we just had a little bit ago, uh, was doom. Mm-hmm. like what makes doom satisfying as a game and it's, you know, the weapon gameplay fills a certain way. The combat fills a certain way. The effects make you feel a certain way. The music plays into it to make you feel a certain way about the way that you approach combat in that game. And it's like, yeah, for sure.

Sebastion:

The heavy middle kicks in and you're like, okay, this feels like doom. You know,

Alec:

Yeah, exactly. And you, you know, it's. It's those little aspects where it's like, okay, how can we take things from these already established genres and apply it to our game? Because the, the other thing that you want to do as a gang developer is, you know, provide a little bit of familiarity. You know? Mm-hmm. people, al always, people always want something new, but they also want something that they can relate to that they, you know, have maybe played before, but not in the same vein. Um, for instance, if, I think if you look at Madden and what was, uh, the two K football back in the day. Yeah. From a gameplay standpoint, like they're, they're similar concepts. They just have different ways of going about it. But there's certainly aspects that I know. I go, oh man, I really enjoyed, you know, this passing mechanic from two K, but then I'd play at Madden and go, yeah, but I enjoy the running style of Madden more, and so. You're trying to always find the little aspects of how people have approached these problems differently and see how you can apply it to your own. Because again, there's so many really well established methods that, um, being able to break those down and apply it to your game really, really helps.

Sebastion:

man, that's a lot of insight. Like, I don't think a lot of people, you know, really like, think about game development, like, because like there's so many layers to this that, that, you know, we don't see on the outside. Like this is, it is almost like an onion in its own ripe. Like we only get to see the finished product, the finished onion, you know, like we ain't get to see how many, like y'all construct the layers around it, so. Mm-hmm. I feel like that's, y'all are doing. all the nerdy, like good work that we love and stuff like that and, but we don't really appreciate. So thank you very much cuz that like, this is so much like dope insight that we're getting right now.

Alec:

Yeah, no, I'm happy to provide it cuz Yeah, it's actually to a degree, being a game developer has ruined games for me to a degree. I bet. Because I'll, I'll go in and play something. I'll be like, how did they do that? And then I look at it and I go, oh, they just did this, this, this, and this. I know how to do that. Yeah. Kind of ruins the experience a little bit.

Sebastion:

So now that you're like, as playing as a game developer, Mm-hmm. Is there a certain game that you look forward to because you're looking forward to it from a mechanical standpoint as well as, you know, just playing the game in general.

Alec:

I mean, I always get excited for lately my excitement has been in destiny, ironically. Um, okay. It's, it's a game that's been out for a while, but they have achieved something. is really hard to achieve and it's not mechanic based, but it's gameplay loop. Mm-hmm. So, um, the way that I was always taught to think about gameplay loop was you want to achieve sort of a middle ground where you don't want things to be too easy, but you don't want things to be too hard and you want things to be really fulfilling. And they have really mastered the addictive game. Of loop of I go and do something, I get rewarded for it. The more difficult I do something, the better the chance is that I'm gonna get something. And even last night I was sitting here grinding through like the little Vanguard playlist and it's double xp and it's like, oh man, I'm gonna get that exact cipher. Oh man, I'm gonna get that exam type. You're just, you're just, You just keep going and going and going. And then one actually, an exotic end, gram dropped, and then at the end I still got my exotic end gram, and I'm like, oh my God, I got two exotics out of this. This is amazing. And it's, it's like those moments that keep you going. And for us, it's like we look at destiny and we go, okay, how do we get that into our game? And how do we do it in a way. Is beneficial to consumers. Cuz that's the other thing too, is we don't wanna be a loot box game. You don't wanna be, you know, the FIFA ultimate team where people are spending, uh, you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars just so they can get a Ronaldo card. It's, I personally don't find that satisfying. I know a lot of people or a lot of the people I game with don't, and I know our community doesn. That. So it's like, okay, how can we set up things in such a way that you're constantly getting people coming back going, okay, well what if I try this? Or, oh, what if I try that? Um, so that's something. But the, my only other answer for that is anything Valve does is they like even their little steam deck game that they came out with, I was

Sebastion:

just gonna ask you about.

Alec:

It's, it's like I, I downloaded it one night cuz it works on PC and I played the whole thing and it left the lasting impression on me. And I just sat back in my chair and I went, how on earth did they tell such a compelling story in 25 minutes? Like, how did I sit there, play through a tech demo and go, I want more. Like, it's, it's absolutely incredible the things that they're able to do over. That's

Sebastion:

amazing. So let me ask you, like, you're, you're in game development, like mm-hmm. you had a journey to get here as well. What would you say to like new people who want to get where you're at right now? Like to want to get into the game development?

Alec:

Ah, yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, It's really gonna be dependent on what you enjoy, and I think that's really what it comes down to with game development is you have to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy programming, don't be a programmer. If you don't enjoy art design or you don't enjoy making music or trying to come up with game mechanics and things, definitely don't do it. But, if you have a passion for it, and that's something that you really, really want to do, that's how you're gonna make good games. Um, and that's really how you're going to make games in general. Um, a lot of the work that we do, Can be a bit tedious. I mean, there's times that, oh gosh, when I know, um, one of the things that we do is Vertex clean up a lot in our models. And so, you know, I might design an initial model and then the f p s comes back and it's a bit too low, and then it's like, okay, well how can you redesign this? And so it, you know, it becomes a process of three to four hours of me going through a model. Going almost vertex by Vertex to see what I can get rid of, what I can change, how can I make, you know, rounded objects square, but still appear rounded and things like that. And it can be really, really tedious work, but because I enjoy it so much. You know, I, it's always given me something to look forward to. So for any young developer out there, it's not even that you necessarily need the skill, you just need the passion for it. Um, cuz I certainly didn't come into this with any game development skills and. The after years and years of work, it's, it's getting better and better and better. So that's sort of my advice is as long as you're coming into it, and this is something that they really, really want to do, I mean, that's really all you need because everything else can be learned. Again, there's great communities on YouTube, uh, for blender, for programming. Uh, there's great communities, especially for, uh, engine development on. I know that's a place where my brother has been talking to a lot of people. Um, they, they've really helped us in directing us towards better graphics, APIs that help the game run better. Um, so it's just, it's the little things like that where I, most of this can be learned on the fly. It's just, you gotta have the, the, the will to

Sebastion:

do it. So one final question. Mm-hmm. like, this has nothing to do with the game, and this has more to do, like you personally. Mm-hmm. how, what is it like working with your brother? Like, do you, do you enjoy it? Did you imagine growing up that you'd be working on a video game with your brother?

Alec:

Nope. Nope. This, this, then that's sort of the beauty of life, right? You never entirely sure where it's gonna take you. I mean, I never thought I'd be in game development. I didn't think that was anything I would ever be doing. But, you know, I, my brother sort of came to me with this what I initially thought was kind of a crazy idea at the time, and was like, okay, I can, I can get behind that a bit. And, and as time went on and then we were, you know, continuing development, I was like, okay, we actually have something here. And I. You know, and I still continue to buy into it and really believe in, uh, his abilities as a programmer to keep building the engine and build the game as well. Um, so yeah, it's, it's actually been really, really amazing. Um, it's helped us connect, uh, a lot better as well cuz you know, we we're both sort of going through it together. Uh, that's really cool. Something. Yeah. So anything that happens, good or bad, it's like, you know, I have him to lean on as well as he has me. And of course we have a really good friend, Morris, uh, who's been a childhood friend since I was like eight years old, who's also our other programmer. So the three of us, I think, have a really close bond. Um, That has definitely come from working nonstop since the last three or four years.

Sebastion:

That's amazing. So I'm just imagining him coming to you like after a family dinner basically. It was like, I think I have an idea. I think we're gonna make a video game now.

Alec:

Yeah, it's, it's. I would laugh cuz you know, we try to keep, I mean, he, he's, he's sort of a work addict. That man he that like, that engine is his baby. So he, he works crazy hours to keep building on it and keep improving it and keep doing the things that he does for it. But I, I like to keep a better work life balance. I, I try to go for, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna work my set amount of hours, but I also need my breaks. And so it'll be funny when, you know, I'll finish a game and get ready to go to bed and it's like 11. and I'll just be getting some water or something. He comes up to me, he goes, all right, I got this idea. And he and I will just sit there and talk for like the next two to three hours and be like, oh yeah, we could do this, and then we could do that. And Oh yeah, we need to do this. And oh, this is really good. And all of a sudden it's, you know, 2:00 AM and you're like, oh yeah, wait, I was gonna go to bed. Oh yeah, I should probably do that cuz I got work tomorrow.

Sebastion:

Yeah, basically he just called a like impromptu work

Alec:

meeting. like, yes. Yes. Yeah, we, we have impromptu work meetings all the time, even with Morris, cuz Morris and I game together a lot. Mm-hmm. and like, we'll be in the middle of playing something and it's always great when I go, oh, you know what? That's a really cool feature. Could we do that? And Morris, yeah, we could probably do that. And we sort of discuss this for playing a game, how we could, you know, use some of those features on our own.

Sebastion:

I understand completely. I understand completely. So, thank you for being on the show. We really appreciate all the insight you provided. Uh, we can't wait to play more of the Game Sickness League ra uh, sickness racing league cuz it's out on early access right now and pretty soon, you know, like down the road y'all are gonna have this game out and it's, you know, I'm gonna have you back on the show cuz I really want to talk all about it cuz this has been a great conversation. I would love to have you

Alec:

back. I would love to be back. I mean, thank you so much for having us on your platform. It's absolutely phenomenal. I've loved all the shows. Um, and we would love to be back. We would love to be back and hopefully talk about, uh, a more polished product by the time, uh, we come back on here, cuz yeah, we have that big update coming out next month. Um, it originally started off as an event, but now is a full fledged change. So, We're looking at an entire engine overhaul, uh, that should hopefully I improve, improve performance for a lot of folks. Uh, we apologize to our A M D users. Uh, we did not have access to AM MD GPUs, so we weren't able to optimize for that. But now with the new engine should help a lot of AM MD users as well as some the video users. Um, So, yeah, new engine, new soundtrack, new music, new game mode, new tracks. It's, it's gonna new physics system, it's, it's an entirely different game and we're really, really excited for people to play it.

Sebastion:

Oh, that's exciting. So where can people find you and the game

Alec:

in general? Yeah, so you can find the game on Steam. You can pick up a copy today for free. Uh, we are giving away the game for free until we feel like the game is in a spot where we're, we're happy selling it to consumers. Um, so pick it up now. Uh, you can find us on Twitter at Cigna Studios, l l c. You can also find us on Instagram at Cigna Studios. Um, and we also post, we usually post monthly or weekly updates as to what we're developing or working. Um, on Steam. So you can find us on the, on our Steam community and you can reach out to us there as well as on our Discord channel. Uh, I think it's just sickness. Yeah, it's the Sickness Racing League chat where we post. I usually play tests in there, so if you want to be a member that helps develop our game, hit us up in there and, you know, help shape the future of Cigna racing.

Sebastion:

That is really cool. Like thank you so much for being on the show and you know, anytime you're ready you can just jump on the show. You're a friend of the show now, so I'm like, anytime you're ready. We're happy to have you back. Thank you so much again for joining us, Alec. Yeah,

Alec:

thank you so much for having me.

Sebastion:

So that's a wrap for today's episode. I wanna give a special shout out to Alec to, for being on the show today. I also wanna let you know about the single player experience Discord server. It's the perfect place for single player gamers to talk about the good single player games they've been playing lately, and to get video game recommendations. Think of it kind of like a book club for single player gamers. The link to join will be in the description. Once you're in, feel free to share your video game backlog list. Talk about the good games you've been playing, or give your feedback on the show if you have a game that you think should be recommended or that you think I should talk about. Let me know in the single Player Experience Discord server. I'll see you there. Before we go, I just want to thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Stay safe, stay gamming, and I hope to catch you in the next one. Peace.

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