The Dope 2022 Games that You Missed and 2023 Switch Predictions Ft. Giovanni Colantonio

what's up? What's up? What's up? And welcome to the single player experience. As always, I'm your host, Sebastian Malden, and in this episode we're talking about the dopest and weirdest games that you missed in 2022. And we're talking about game mechanics that should be copied more from video games. So for these two topics, I had knew, I just knew I had to bring in a heavy hitter. That's why joining me on this episode is none other than digital trends gaming section lead, Giovanni Co. Antonio. Giovanni has been in the gaming industry for a while now. You've probably seen his works on inverse.com, on polygon.com, and on digital trends. Of course, this guy knows all the ins and outs of the gaming industry. In this episode, he's gonna talk about those two topics that I mentioned, and he's gonna give some Nintendo Switch predictions, and he's gonna take on the daunting task. That is the pro nerd trivia challenge. We got all this and more coming right at you right after the intro. DJ start the intro. Mine. Like I said in the intro, we have a very special guest joining us today. He is the Gaming section Lead for Digital Trends. He's the host of the Dope podcast, left Trigger, right Trigger, and he's one of the hosts of the This Week in Baseball podcast. He is the one, the only Giovanni, Mario Prime Co.

Antonio, thank you for having me. Excited to be here and excited for the hyped Up Wrestling intro,

man. No, I'm glad to have you on the show. Super excited to have you here. But for the people who may not know you, can you introduce yourself to the audience?

Yeah, for sure. Um, I'm Juvan Cal, Antonio. Um, I am a games writer, uh, games media journalist, I guess. Um, but my focus is a lot on criticism and reviews and whatnot. Um, but I, I kind of run the [email protected], so if you've ever seen a review from that website that made you mad. Sorry, that's just, that's just what we do. I guess now people get really mad at I dunno. Um, but yeah. Uh, you know, been playing games for, for my whole life as, uh, as is the case, I think with most people in the industry, uh, at this point. Um, and, and I love him. Uh, big, big indie game guy. Um, you know, grew up on, uh, Uh, Nintendo and Atari and everything and, and just play pretty much everything these days. Um, and yeah, just, just having a lot of fun doing it is, is cool. It's a cool gig.

you know, before we began, you, you brought up something that I did not know. What was the Mattis you've ever seen someone get from a review? Like what game? Oh,

oh boy. It was Sonic this year. Uh, Sonic Frontier. Frontier Frontiers. We, we were, we were the one, we, we were the jerks about it. Like, we really didn't like it. Like we really didn't like it. Um, you know, like the person who wrote the review liked it even less than me. I thought it was like not great. I, I, I mean, I, I didn't like it personally, whatever, but, um, he, he like hated it. Um, he wrote a very kind of like detailed review of it that got into like, why. The sonic fandom, like the, the most we've ever been harassed at the website. Like, it, it's, it sucked. I mean, like, really just really like a cruel, cruel thing. Um, but you know, like we're, we're also kind of used to it at this point, but people get mad at us for everything. It's like, you know, we gave Eldon Ring, uh, an eight, which I thought was like a real, a great scorer. Like, I mean, we, we consider it eight like amazing and people were mad as hell that it wasn't a 10, you know? And it was like, it was like, I don't know, man. Our bar is just different. Like, we're not, we're not trying to give everything a nine and a 10 you know, like we, we have, we have our, our, our standards that we're keeping to, so people get mad at this all the time cuz our score is always like one below the average and people care about this stuff. Um, but Sonic Frontiers was the one where like we were a real outlier on it. And um, and people were very upset. I, you know, I can't imagine ever being upset over one website's video game review score, but like, I, I mean, people just, I, I guess you know, this, this stuff is really important to them, so I hope they had a good time with the game anyways. for sure, for sure.

Sonic is probably the one fandom I look at and think to myself, I'm like, that is probably the one of the most loyal fandoms I've ever seen in my life. In absolutely, oh, pheno, like phenomenally loyal, like almost to a fault. Like, you don't see this kind of loyalty outside of sports very often because I live in Dallas and so I get the in denial cowboy fans all the time. I get that all the time. But yeah. But like Sonic is one of those to where it is almost mirroring the cowboys to wear, like for 3D Sonic, there's not very many wins that come from like, not right from the 3D space a little bit. And then like, if you criticize just a little bit of it, people really get offended

about that. They get really upset. Yeah. And, and I get it, like I, I appreciate people who are really passionate about their, uh, the things they love and whatnot. Um, I, I think that maybe sometimes that fan base gets a little, like personally offended in a way that is, that is strange. And I'm kind of like, I can't imagine tying my identity to this brand in that way. Um, but I get it, you know? Uh, people, people really care about it. They grew up with it. Um, but yeah, like when we, when we had the review, like I was getting messages from people who were like begging us to, to raise the score and they were like, Can you raise it so that the Metacritic score goes up so that it sells more so that like, they can keep making sonic games. And I was like, they're gonna keep making sonic games. It's the like most successful IP it's one of the most successful gaming ipss in the world right now. Like, what are you talking about? Um, I, you know, I, I think they just, they, there's like a big culture war over Sonic where it's been the laughing stock for a long time. And, and these people, you know, they, they love it and they care about it. And, um, it's, it's complicated and, you know, I get it. Uh, I get it and I don't get it, you know, like it's, it's very foreign to me. Um, but I also understand that, uh, these things mean stuff to people, but, um, maybe a healthier way to do it, but but, you know, some people are better than others about it. Like it really, I think it's probably a smaller subset of the fandom, uh, than it seems, I think, I think it's one of those things where the loudest people are probably the ones that are out there and, and most of them, I'm sure, Lovely. Um, but yeah, we, we got, we got, we got a really, a really rough, uh, thing. But yeah, I understand the sports analogy too cuz as, as a Massachusetts born person, like I'm, I'm New England Patriots trash whether I want to be or not. So like, I know what it's like to just have to defend it no matter what. Mm-hmm. it's like, oh, they cheated. No they didn't Um, you know, you, you gotta do it. So I guess I, maybe I do get it more than I think Yeah.

Hey man. Well you put stuff in like sports terms, everything kind of gets a little clearer, but Absolutely. But Giovanni, let's segue into some video game talks here. Let's talk about your top five games of all time. Uh, icebreaker question. I like to ask many

of my guests. Yes. And I have this list. I, it's, I keep, I keep meticulous track of stuff like this. Um, because you never know when these questions are gonna come up. Um, it's gonna seem, this list is gonna seem very basic and I, I apologize. It's, it is what it is. Um, five. Okay. You're going in or you like descending? Yeah, no, let's do the, let's do the drama. Let's do the drama. Okay. Five Super Mario World. Um, it's my favorite Mario game. I think it, it's just like a perfect. like Super Nintendo era, like platformer. I, I think it's like the height of the series still. And, and I love Yoshi. It like writing Yoshi in that game feels incredible. Um, four, the irony of this entire conversation is Sonic the Hedgehog to It's like a genesis. It's incredible. It really, it's like a fantastic game. The like vibe of it. The music, uh, the movement, like the level design, like everything firing in all cylinders, like truly a perfect video game. Uh, so Sue me. No, no. I, I, I dunno. Uh, the enigma, um, number three, earthbound, God, that game is, is phenomenal. Um, like one of the funniest games I've ever played, uh, like a really clever use of the R PPG genre that is like, so going against tropes and, and doing its own thing and wildly creative in a way that like only games can be sometimes. Um, two, this is the basic one. It's like saying The Beatles are on your list, but arine of time. Um, the first, I mean like the first time I played Arine legend to double arine of time, I was just like, Whole, like seeing the Matrix, you know, like this is whoa. And like, it probably hasn't aged that well. I refuse to go back and play it cause I know it's not gonna be that same experience. But, um, you know, at the time that I played it, um, which even like wasn't, when it came out, it was like during the Game Cube era that I played it, and it still was like, this is beautiful and, and incredible and feels like con like epic and, and canon to gaming history, you know, in the same way that like a piece of classic literature would, would be where it's like, oh, this is a foundational story. You know, even if it's kind of like simple by today's standards. Um, and then number one, it's a meite prime, uh, for, for the old Nintendo game cube. Just like a perfect, perfect video game. I mean, again, the vibe of it, you know, the, the music and the, and the level of design and everything, um, is like unbeatable, just truly unbeatable. And I, I just think that like the first person shooting platforming adventure format is, was so phenomenally like different for the time and like, Games still don't really match it. Like games have tried to do it. Mm-hmm. and some of them have come close to it, but like, it is still almost like a unique game in that kind of genre. So it it, yeah. It it's the best, it's the best. A heavy Nintendo list. I know, but, uh, I, I swear there's, there's stuff that's not Nintendo further down the list. Yeah.

So I gotta ask you, based on your, your five games of all time, if you can choose any game to just be remade into like a modern version of that, which one would it be? Ooh, I'm, yeah, like you answered the top five. Too easy. I have to find a spicy question.

I have. No, that's good. You know, uh, that, that's a really, really good question. Um, it, it's hard cuz I'm like, cuz a lot of these games I think are like kind of perfect and I wouldn't wanna change anything about them. Like, even, even Metro Prime, like, I think that'll probably get an HD remaster that's been the rumor for a while. Mm-hmm. and like, I'm sure that'll be great and, and everything but like, God, every time I go back and play it, it's still is really modern. I think that. At this point, maybe not like this year, but like, you know, next switch hardware, I could see aino of time really benefiting from like, hey, let's like give this the full modern treatment and make it feel like this big realistic epic that it felt like at the time. Um, just to make sure, my whole theory with remakes is I'm like, when you're remaking a game, you are remaking like the feeling of what it felt like to play that game for the first time. You know, like that's what you're preserving. Like, it, it should feel exactly the same as it felt in the nineties or something, but, you know, modernized so that it is playable again. And I think awkward awakening. Yeah, exactly. Like links awakening, like that game feels like what it felt like to play it on the Game Boy, but it's obviously plays completely differently from it. Um, or like the, the shadow of the Colossus remake that was like, I think 2014, like mm-hmm. you know, that game doesn't look great now, but like the, the remake of it that came out like, Looks like you remember it looking in, in the two thousands or whatever. Um, so I think aka of time could like benefit in like five years like, we'll, we'll give it five from that moment that's like, here's like the big epic remake of this that like, you know, looks like a modern game, like, looks like a from soft game or something you know, like that that ha that puts people in that mindset of like, hey, when this came out in 19, 19 96 or, or whatever year it was like, this is what it felt like to look at this game and like experience it for the first time. Um, I think that's gonna become necessary because again, like it's aging probably not super, super well mm-hmm. and, uh, I think you gotta preserve the feeling otherwise people will just be like, I don't get it. Like, why is this a big deal? Yeah, for sure.

For sure. I can completely understand that. What, um, what like, Zara art style would you

choose? I think, I think for a arena you have to go realistic for it. Mm-hmm. um, I think like, you know, the, the Twilight Princess kind of like style that I. You know, that was trying to draw from, from Macarena, I would do that over like the tune style. Um, because again, I think in, in like 96 or, or whatever, like that's kind of what it felt like, like it felt like it was striving for, I mean, it's still very stylized, but there was almost something about it that felt like weirdly grounded you know, just like how like grassy and earthy the whole thing is. Um, so I kind of think I, I kind of think you would want that. And again, like, you know, I, I'm kind of thinking of that like from soft kind of look, you know, where it's like this grand epic like, um, fantasy. Look, I, I think you gotta preserve that and I, I, I don't necessarily think that you'll get that as much out of the, the tune art style, which I think is more of like a whimsical thing, you know, and like a storybook thing. Um, you know, a is very much like this is a canonical fantasy classic. And, and you know, I think that that would probably fit it. Yeah. I like that answer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is that, is that how you'd go? Yeah. Yeah. That, that's pretty

much exactly how I'd go because I, I'd want something that felt, I don't know, I like zda when it has a little grit to it. Like I, I feel like when it has a little grit to, it has a little bit of an edge, I feel like I lean towards more of those games than I do the more whimsical

side of Zelda. Yeah, totally. I think they both have their place, um mm-hmm. you know, for sure. But yeah, like, you know, the, the links awakening, remake style, like certainly wouldn't be the fit for it. Yeah, for sure. It's not, not quite tonally there. Um, so yeah, it's a good question. Yeah.

So let's, I have one more icebreaker question for you before we get to the topic of this show. So, if Kirby, you, you're a big Nintendo guy, if Kirby absorbed you, what kind

of powers would he get? God, the, the easy answer to this is anxiety, He would, he would, it would screw him up real bad. He would like, you know, when sometimes you like eat a power and k you eat an enemy and Kirby and you're like, what the hell? Disability stinks. You know, when you're like, oh, he just turned into like a, he just turned into a rock and he can't move now. Um, I feel like that might be what Kirby would run into where he's like, he's spitting that thing out real quick. He's like, oh, I don't, he's like, I don't like that. Like, I don't, like I don't wanna drive. I feel like I can't drive a car now cuz it's too stressful. Um, I think that would be, that's the first answer that comes to mind. Um, I feel like that's one of my, one of my. Defining traits. Um, I also feel like, you know, something very Italian. I, I think we could, we could get into, obviously I'm way too Italian. Uh, it's, it's a problem, like, I feel like, you know, there's like Chef Kirby, right? Mm-hmm. where like, he, he goes in that mode, I think, like, maybe that, but like Pasta Chef Kirby, where he's just like rolling out the dough on the table, you know, he like takes enemies and he rolls them out and do a dough and he, you know, like puts them through the machine and everything. And, you know, long animation takes, takes way too long. But like, he's got the patience because you know he's gotta do it right. You gotta put love into it. Mm-hmm. um, I think that would be like the Italian Kirby that like, That that would come out. Have you asked yourself this? Have you asked yourself this question? You know, I've, by yourself,

I've always asked people, I've never asked myself, what, what would it be? And

I guess, gimme the answer. I'm turning it around. Oh man, you're putting me on the spot now. Loud. Yeah, I got it. Look, if you're gonna put me on the spot, it's coming right back. Um,

let's see. I think you would be really knowledgeable about nonsense. Like, I, like, I think, I think you would know a whole lot about stuff that wouldn't necessarily help him in the long run. Like I, for some reason, like I, you know, my wife's always watching like TV and she's al, she's one of those people who like, I want, I really don't know who that actor is, um, or where he's from. And I'm like, I can look at it and be like, oh, I know where that, and like I can just recite it, just walking by. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, you didn't even watch that show. How do you know? And I'm like, I like, I just, I just know I've watched trailers. I've, I'm like, I soak in Id, I mdb, I, I I was gonna say the human I mdb thing. Yeah. Very much so. Like, I feel like Kirby would just have that useless knowledge just

sitting around. That's good. Now you have the answer. So next time somebody asks, be like, oh, we already did this Yeah, for sure. if we know for sure. I'm gonna write that down. Yeah, Don't forget it. Don't forget it. It's gonna come up again, I swear. Uh, cool. Good answer. Good answer.

For sure. I like that. I like that. So, Giovanni, I gotta ask you, let's, let's go to the topic of the show. 2022 was, uh, uh, like a very stacked year for video games. Like, uh, some people might argue was top heavy. Some people might argue like indies kind of carried us through the, through the year in between the major releases, you know, d different narratives for different perspectives. But, you know, what were some of the games that really stood out to you in 2022?

Yeah, so I mean, I, I thought it was a really cool year. I mean, like, my list of, of games that like I liked this year was like longer than most years. Mm-hmm. and it didn't have as many. Huge things at the top where I was like, oh my God, there was like 10 games that I think are like Alzheimer's. Um, but I think that the few that like kind of are like way up there, um, I'm, I feel pretty strongly about. Um, and then there's just a lot of like, God, these are just like really cool and, and diverse and interesting experiences. Um, yeah, a bunch of games. I'll, I'll get the, I'll get the obvious ones out of the way. The big, big dogs outta the way, basically. Yeah. Let's, let's get the, let's get the big ones outta the way, the, the big one Outta the Way, which is like, obviously Eldon Ring I think is, is there's a reason that everyone's talking about it. Um, you know, I, I wasn't a Souls person before Eldon Ring. I like hated I hated those games. So I played like three hours of blood board and was like, everyone's playing a joke on me, like, why did you do this Um, like I, I, I, I just didn't understand it. Um, and, and I think Eldon ring like I. Like I, I, I really like it. It's, it's somewhere on my list. Um, and I, I think it makes sense that that's the one that people like really widely connected with because it kind of solves some of the problems with those games, which is like, usually you just like wanna see all the cool stuff and you just can't, because unless you're really good, you just can't see it. And, and I love that, that game, like you can genuinely spend like a dozen hours just walking around and not fighting a single enemy and like, actually just have that experience of like, whoa, I just saw a bunch of like, really cool art and like, surprises in the world. Um, and I think that's kind of what that series needed. You know, like the, the souls formula really needed that like, Level of openness where like you can still get something out of the game, even if like, you know, you just, you just can't butt up against the difficulty. Um, and it just made me like actually be able to get through most of it, um, you know, until the ending and then like when it railroads you into the last couple of fights, I was like, oh, this is what I hate about these games. Um, but you know, just like the experience of riding around this year I thought was, was just incredible. Um, and, and I get why people like really love that game. Um, so that's a big one. Um, now the cooler answers, I guess we'll, we'll go into, Coincidentally,

like I, the only game I pretty much rage quit was also bloodborne. Like, I, I completely, like, I was just like, I hear this game is phenomenal. I'm gonna try it out. I popped that baby in and by the third boss, I was just like, no, this is not gonna be for me. I'm tapping

out. That's like kind of where I, I popped off as well. Like, I, I mean, for me, here's my thing. I'll say this with ProSoft before we go on. Mm-hmm. I go on so many tangents, which you're about to learn. um, My thing with ProSoft is like the frustration I have with them as a developer, you know, I, I I'm starting to understand the more, you know, Eldon Ring kind of turned me around on them. I went back and I played Demon Souls and was like, oh yeah, this is, this is great. I get it. Um, but the frustration I have with them is that like, uh, their games require perfection from players. Mm-hmm. like, you, you have to be like, frame perfect, you know? And like a lot of these dodges and, and like, there's, there's no room for error and, and you know, it's like very punishing, but like the games themselves are really imperfect. Right. The camera's bad, like, enemies will stab you through walls, you know, like for sure things will, things will just clip. And it's like, you can't ask me to be perfect if, like, the game doesn't have like the framework to, you know, like mm-hmm. to make it so that everything feels like my fault and bloodborne. Like, I was just dying and it never felt like my fault, you know? It, it always felt like, where's the camera? Like, I can't see myself, oh, I got hit. Cool. Um, that stuff happens in Eldon Ring too. And that's my one, like pushback with that game. Mm-hmm. when people are like, it's incredible and like, best game of all time. I'm like, but it's still that, you know, it's still like you bump up against this boss and like, you know, you, you just can't see what's going on and you can't see them hitting you. And like, that's not, that's not fun. Um, and I think that's like a, a core flaw. Um, In, in that company's design. So bloodborne, same thing, like three bosses. And I was like, if, if you are going to expect so much out of me and you cannot give me it in return, like mm-hmm. then then the contract is off. You know, like, I, I can't do this. Um, and that, that's always been my hangup with it. But again, I'm starting to kinda like learn the language and, and like work in spite of the flaws. And I think the people ultimately love from software, like in spite of itself sometimes. Mm-hmm. where it's like, yeah, like there are these problems. They're never gonna clean them up. They're never gonna fix them. And like, we like the games enough that we just have to deal with it at this point. Um, But I mean, if people criticized it more, maybe they would fix it. I don't know. Like, come on, let's, let's give it to 'em. Um, I believe, I believe in the power of constructive criticism.

I'm right there with you. firm self games to me have almost felt like a real life relationship where you feel like you want the person on the other side to give more to the relationship and firm software, games expect you to put yourself out there, 70, 30 versus, you know? versus meeting you even even halfway through the equation. So I get what you mean completely. And I felt that, yeah, because I've, before Eldering, I was just like yourself. I never really connected and said, oh, this is, this is the game that got me into soul games, basically.

Yeah, the, I think you, you put it perfectly there, like the 70 30 thing is, is spot on. It's just like you have to do so much work. Um, and like the game is giving you these beautiful visas and like incredible boss fights and, and visuals and whatnot. But like, it's just, you know, sometimes it's just not giving you enough of like the basic quality of life that like, I don't know. It makes them really, really frustrating and I get why people hate them, and I get why people love them. I think it really just comes down to like how much you can deal with that. Um, and again, I do think that Eldon ring is the game this year that like, made it easiest to deal with that. Mm-hmm. which is why I think it's like the crossover one that everyone loves. Um, because like end of the day you can just like go around and grind up a ton, you know, in like a really natural way and like just not have that, that gap mean as much. Um, so yeah. I feel that that's a good way to put it. Um, I can go up my list. I'm, I'm basically gonna go through my top five here. Okay. That's, that sounds good. If that works. Um, we'll, we'll do it that way. And then, you know, we can talk about some stragglers if, if we want to. Um, but getting into the, the other stuff, and these are all like, single player games, so I think it fits the podcast here, Um, so, uh, tear down, do you know much about Teardown? This is like, kind of like the hidden gem of the year in my mind. I know, uh, can you describe it a little bit? Absolutely. Would love to, teardown uh, came out in early access like two years ago or something like that. It is basically like a heist game. That's, that's the way I would describe it. It has these like, very kind of like blocky graphics, like, you know, box graphics, like almost like a Minecraft kind of situation. And basically what it is, is that you get dropped into a level and you get an objective and everything is destructible. Every single. Every inch of it is destructible. Um, and you get different tools to do this. And basically it's like almost this action puzzle game where it's like, okay, you need to steal a bunch of cars off this level, but as soon as you move one, a timer starts, and like, you have to get all of them to this spot before the timer runs out. And you have like no time, right? It's like 60 seconds to get like four cars that are around this map, like to a spot and then get out of there. Um, and so what the game becomes is like you have to create this perfect route and perfect plan by like blowing walls through things, you know? And just like doing really clever movement to be like, okay, I'm gonna blow a wall in front of this car so that I can like, drive it out of this window and into the spot. Then I'm gonna like blow a hole through this house so I can come through the other way and grab this other one that's in a garage here and like shoot it back out. Um, and you just like execute these really kind of like, um, you know, mostly heists and whatnot or like crimes, like stealing safes or something. Um, and it's just all through like really. Clever, like spatial awareness. Puzzling, you know, there, there's one that I love in it that's like, you have to get a safe out of this house. Um, and like as soon as it gets outside, um, you know, like an alarm is going to go off. So you're trying to figure out like, how do I get it out of the house? How do I get it in a position so that like, once I do get it outta the house, I can move it quick. And I had this thing where I was like blowing holes in the floor underneath it so that it would like fall to the next floor and then blow, blow that floor up and it's like, fall to the next one. And then like, setting it up so that like, you know, when I'm ready to go and like get these four safes around the map, I can go like, blow up that last floor, move it here really quick, like run over here. Um, it's a really hard game to describe. It's, it's cuz it's like unlike anything I've really played. And I, and I think you'll see that as a theme, I guess. Mm-hmm. maybe on this list a little bit, but like, I really like stuff that feels different, um, that feels entirely new. Like, I don't necessarily wanna play stuff that just feels like another game that I loved at some point. It's like, I already played that game, you know, like gimme something new that feels, that feels really different. Um, And tear down for me, like really fits that bill. I wish I'd gotten talked about it a little bit more. Um, I, I think it had its moment in 2020 when it was like an early access game. Mm-hmm. and people just didn't keep up with it. Um, but it is, it is like my kind of like hidden gem recommendation this year where I'm kind of like, if you miss this, like this is the one where it's like when you're doing your indie game cleanup, like don't skip it. Like it's really, it's really a cool one. Um, and a cool steam deck game. I played that thing on Steam Deck and it was, it was a lot of fun. Really pushes that thing to its limits.

So, yeah. I was, um, I like I was watching the trailer on mute while you were describing this. Yeah. And I remember, I remember seeing the trailer for this. I remember, yeah. The talk about this for like back in 2020. I was mistaken in thinking that this game was like the Lego game that was coming that came out earlier this year. Yeah. It's what? Cause it has a very similar art style. Yeah. I saw some people like playing this game earlier this year and I thought they were just playing the Lego

game. Right, exactly. Mm-hmm. they were doing like a construction sandbox thing. Exactly. It's like, it, I think it has like a mode that's like that, but yeah, it's, it's like secretly this very clever puzzle game that is like the, the best heist video game. Like the only the only heist video game like ever. Um, where, where you're just like, you have to think really smart, you know? Mm-hmm. and you have to almost think like, you know, like, uh, someone pulling off a heist, like it's like a, a fast and furious game sometimes, right? It's like fast five where you're like, okay, like we go through the house here, we do this, and then like, we get this out here and when we do that, blah, blah, blah. And, and like that to me is such a cool experience. I, I haven't had that in, in any video game. Like, um, I'm a big puzzle game. I'm a big puzzle game guy. And, and I love to see games that like use the puzzle idea in, in a really different ways. That that's not just like the explicit, you know, expected. Like, oh, here's what a puzzle looks like in a game. Um, and, and I think that was just like the coolest one I played this year where I was like, This makes me think and problem solve, but it's like still, you know, kind of like an action game in some ways. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I think that that is like, really cool. Yeah. Definitely worth checking out. Tear down. Uh, I think it's on pc. Um, I don't know if it came to anything else. Um, it might, it might be on some console at this point. I don't know. Um, but really cool studio, uh, they get like acquired by like the Embracer group or something this year. Like they were, everyone did basically It was during that whole, like, it was during that whole wave where they picked up like the Lord of the Rings IP and stuff. They were like, also, we bought the tear down developer and I was like, wait, what? Mm-hmm. Um, so really, really cool thing. And I think probably really big things coming out of that studio now that they're gonna like, actually have a, a bunch of money to make whatever they do next. So, um, that's, that's a cool one on my list. Um, let me ask you a question before we move on to the

next one. How

does it control? Uh, I mean, I played it on Steam Deck and it, it, it controlled really well, you know? Mm-hmm. it's, you know, first person, you know, basic controls there, um, the like, Being able to destroy anything is really smooth, you know? Mm-hmm. it's just kind of like you have a bunch of tools, you, you put 'em up, um, you know, some of 'em are guns, some 'em are like, you strapped C4 to a wall or whatever. Um, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty good. Pretty basic there. Mm-hmm. pretty basic. Yeah. I, I think like it pulls it off pretty well. Um, like, it, it's, it's pretty simplified in the, in a way that it kind of needs to be to make it work. Um, yeah, it's definitely smooth. Again, the fact that I played it on a steam deck, you know, like that's my mark of like, how well does it control? Because like the controls on it, they're kind of weird sometimes. Mm-hmm. like they, they can feel a little like strange in how it's laid out. Um, so yeah, I definitely didn't have a problem with it. Um, but it's, it's just cool. It's cool if you like heist movies especially, and you just wanna like have that moment of like, I wanna like have that like mastermind Ocean's 11 moment of like, uh, how do I put this to you? How do I pull this off? It seems impossible. Um, I think it, I think it's just like totally, uh, out of the park, cool game this year. Oh, good. Good. What's the next recommendation? Let's do it. Um, I'm huge on sentiment, which is the hardest video game to recommend this year, And I cannot recommend it to most human beings, uh, because they will look at me and be like, this is the most boring looking thing of all time. And maybe it is but it's very much my thing. Um, I think this game is phenomenal, but I, I think it's like you have to really dig into it to get to that point. Like when I started it, um, and I like demoed at games com in like mm-hmm. Germany this year. And like, I played it for like 45 minutes and was like, that's fine, I was like, I was like, this is, this is like cool. It's like a visual novel. Like I played a million games that are like this. Um, and you know, when I started the full game, I was, I was hour or two, I was kinda like, same thing, you know, I'm just kinda like walking around and talking to people and it's like a lot of lore and a lot of reading and, you know, I wish I had voice acting, blah, blah, blah. What the game does really, really, really well. And, and you don't really. Pick up on it until like, like five hours into it. Which, which is tough because it's so demanding. Um, what it's doing with choice is like better than I think any video game has ever handled the concept of choice. Um, because it is explicitly most video games when they do choice, like a mass effect or something like that, right? Mm-hmm. it's always like, there's the good or the bad, or there's the right or the wrong, and that's it, right? It's, it's always like this morality system. It's always like a very black and white system. You know? Sometimes maybe a game will be like, or you could be apathetic, and that's like the third choice. Um, but it's like rare that you get a game where it's like, Hey, any choice that you do is like, that's the choice. Like that's fine. Like, we're not gonna penalize you for it, but like it's going to have an impact on the world in some way. Um, and like you will see how that is laid out. So, so I guess for people who don't know anything about it, you know, Penman is like, Set in the 17th century in like a fictional European village. Uh, you're a journeyman artist who comes to this town and like the, the basic setup of it at the beginning is that there's a murder and you get roped into solving it. So like, at the beginning of the game, it's just kind of like a murder mystery. You're kind of like spending your days trying to like, it's almost like you have that like persona, social link sort of thing. Mm-hmm. where it's like you have like two moments during the day where you can, you know, like chill out basically. Mm-hmm. yeah. Chill out and find your leads and like, hope that you, that you uncover something and you have some like r p. You know, background stats that are kind of like, oh, I have an ultan, I have an occult background or something. So like, maybe I'm gonna find details about the occult. Um, but like, the whole thing is just like dialogue choices. And there's not a ton of them, but they're really impactful. Like every time there is one, it is important and you understand what that is doing. And what's cool about the game, and, and I don't know if this is like a thing that is widely known about it for people who haven't played it, is that like, it takes place over like 25 years. It's like three decades of, of game that you go through over the course of like three acts. So the thing that's really cool about it is you see how your decisions like impact the future of this town, and the people in it, you like revisit them 10 years later and it's like, Hey man, remember this thing that you did, like it has snowballed into this. Or like, you know, it has, it has screwed up this person's life, or like, you know, or they remember you in a really positive way. Um, and I, and I don't, you know, because video games don't like do that mm-hmm. you know mm-hmm. like, they, they don't let you like. You know, it's always short term, like you made this choice in the next hour, like of the story that is going to have an impact. Um, but actually being able to see like you are shaping, like your decisions have an impact and they shape like not only people, but like culture, you know, and, and that stuff is really important and like, there's, there's a big responsibility to that, um, is beautiful. And, and the last act of it, um, takes that to this like really different conclusion. Like, it, it kind of like gets away from the murder mystery thing and, and gets into this idea of like, um, I don't wanna, I don't wanna spoil too much about it, I guess, but like, it gets into this idea of like, you are making choices that like, are going to represent this culture for like, history. You know, you're making, like, you are making artifacts that like, are going to like, tell people the story of this town when like the people are long gone. Um, and, and I just think that like it. Such a phenomenally interesting game. Um, I get why people would bounce off it in like two seconds, and, and I, it's like, really, I've recommended it to so few people despite loving it. Um, you know, I'm just always like, yeah, I mean, if you like books you know, like, and you're gonna love it, but like, it's not a game, you know, in a traditional sense. Um, but I think like once you get into it and, and get what it's doing with choice and like understand, um, the, the nuance of it, I guess, like, I, I think it's, it's just terrific. Um, and again, just a, as a single player game mm-hmm. you know, One of the best, just in terms of like how personal and like quiet it is, you know, where you can just sit with it and like, those choices feel like your own and, and are important. Um, so that's, that's been one on my list and it looks, I mean, unbelievable. Like really one of the best looking games this year. W kind of like mirroring, you know, wood cuts of the 17th century and having that look like it's, there's really nothing like it. Um, and some great sound design. It's got everything. It's great. I would not recommend it to a soul. If this sounds boring, you probably will think it's boring. don't worry about it. Uh, I like boring stuff sometimes. I played an

hour of it, and it wasn't that I couldn't get into it, it was just that I had, there were so many things that came out, you know, around that timeframe. Yeah. It was like, it was a stacked, stacked line of game. So I, I think I'm gonna play this this week because this, right now I have a kind of a lull and I do love, uh, I love obsidian and I love these stories that they tell. So this is one of those I think I'm gonna get back to and, and very much try to see how these stories play out. Yeah. One of the questions I have for you though, is like, yes. Do you think this is obsidian

best game? Ooh, you know, I, that's a tough question. I, I feel like I haven't played all of their game. Like, I haven't played Fallout New Vegas. I hate to say no. Okay. I, I know. I know. That's the one that everyone loves. Um, you know, I've played a bunch of obsidian games. Um, what I would say, I think is that like it is their most. Well, it's, it's tough because like, it was made by a 14 person team, right? Mm-hmm. So like, as opposed to it being like a really big, like, full studio effort, um, it's almost like the vision of like Josh Sawyer, like carried out by like a very small team. Um, but because of that, I think it's like, it's most complete and like, direct game. Like it is, like everything about it is firing on all cylinders. You know, it's not like it's overstuffed with content to try and get it over the line or something like that. Or like, oh, it's taking tropes from open world games that it has to do, or something like that. Um, or doing genre things that it has to do. Um, and so in that sense, I think it's, it's maybe it's most like. Again, like focused mm-hmm. focused project where it's like, yeah. Like they set out to do something that is completely original and unique and there's like no compromises. It's like truly no single compromise in this game is made. Like everything that they wanted to do feels like it's here. And it doesn't feel like they had someone breathing down their neck and being like, well, but it has to be marketable. So like, it's gotta be longer, or it has to have loot, or it has to have whatever. Um, yeah, I think like it is the purest vision of obsidian. Mm-hmm. because I, I think I, I interviewed somebody on the team about it and I asked them about like, you know, how does this fit into obsidian games? You know, it's, it feels so different. Um, but the thing they emphasized was like, choice is, is the thing that matters to us as a studio. And, and we want to be making, like, we don't wanna throw a million choices at the players we want, like, we want to make a, like, selection of them that feel important, um, and aren't about right and wrong. And I think that like, this is the most. Core obsidian game where like you strip away all the action and big effects and, and you know, like huge storytelling and you just get to like, what makes their games and like the meat and potatoes. Yeah. You, you can see it, you know, you can see like, take away all the huge r p G elements and like, this is what their games are and this what defines their studio, which is like meaningful, impactful choices. Um, so like, best, I don't know. Most Yes. you know, like most fundamental like building block, obsidian game. Like if you wanna just like deep dive into the studio and be like, but what makes an obsidian game? Mm-hmm. like, I think it's a cool one to go to cuz it's so opposite of anything they do, but then like you can kind of see like, oh, this is exactly what they're going for in all their other games. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a good question. I

think the, I guess the best way of describing it then is like, if Obsidian made a indie movie, this is what would be that, that movie?

Yeah. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. um, you know, it, it just kind of feels like. Again, like Microsoft gave them the, the free reign to just like, make an indie movie, you know, where it's like, do whatever you want. Like what's the thing you care about? What's the passion thing you care about? And I, and I wish that was something that happened more. Um, I, I think it's happening a little bit more, um, especially on the Microsoft side, cuz they're starting to finance like a lot of much weirder projects like this cuz they've got game paths and they just need games on it. So they're like, just make stuff. Just make stuff y'all. Like what do you, what do you like? Let's do it. Um, and, and I hope to see more of that, like going into 2023 and, and beyond. Like I, I would love to see more small projects like this that are off the beaten path that are completely different, you know, like, you know, bring on the star fields and everything mm-hmm. and like cool. Like I'll play those and, and that's exciting. Um, but like, I, I really wanna see these things that feel like somebody has something to say and like they are, they are doing an uncompromising, um, thing to get it across. Even like games that I don't like that do that I really respect, like Scorn came out this year. I really. I don't like it. I don't either. I did not like it either. I, I really don't think it's a good game at all. But like, it's cool that like you can see them doing exactly what they wanted to do, right? Mm-hmm. you get like, they wanted to make an HR Geiger inspired game. Like they didn't want to do a bunch of like, trophy stuff. They wanted to like butt against a bunch of stuff. Um, whether or not that's a good decision,

it's like, for you

to decide, that's a, that's a, for a lot of debate and I hope that some people dig it. I like, I really don't, but like, you know, it's, it's cool that Microsoft, um, you know, when, when kind of looking for games for Game Pass was like, cool. Like this game is weird and it's gonna be polarizing and like, you know, some people aren't gonna like it, but like, it's, you know, it's like an interesting thing that they're trying to do and like, let's, let's find the audience for it. Um, I, I would like to see more of that, even if it, even if it means like, stuff that is not gonna be for everyone and that like, I just don't think is good. Um, I would, I would rather play games that are bad and interesting than games that are like, good and boring. Um, and that is like, You know, how I feel about a lot of, a lot of games that came out this year were like, a lot of stuff that I liked and like was, was great and like very technically impressive. Um, but you know, like I didn't think about it much.

you know? Yeah. Like, I completely, I'm right there with you. Like I, and I said this on an earlier episode, um, of the podcast where I also concur that I think Microsoft, you know, like there is the argument that they need bigger AAA experiences. Like there's, there's star fields and everything like that, but there's also an argument that they can go their own complete route and have these smaller, more intimate experiences. And these, these things are gonna fill out the library and they're gonna fill out the content that they are dying, that fans are

actually dying for right now. You know? Yeah. You know, and, and there was, there was a discourse like really early in the year about Microsoft when Starfield got delayed, where people were like, why should I have Xbox Game Pass right now? Like, there's nothing coming to it. You know, there's no big games. And then like you look back. at what was on Game Pass this year? Really good year and like really, really phenomenal year. Like honestly, Xbox had like the best year out of anyone. It was crazy. Like when you actually look back at what was on it, it was like all the indie games that people were talking about, right? Mm-hmm. it was like tunic, immortality. Vampire Survivors. Survivors, citizen Sleeper. Yeah. Like all of those things. Signal Acknowledge was like on Game Pass, like all of the cool games that like, people actually like wanted to discuss and talk about. Um, were, were on Game Pass this year, and like, again, not all of them were necessarily good and a lot of them were really polarizing and whatnot, but like, damn cool. You know, Exactly. That's Take a swing. Yeah. Take a swing. And, and I would, I would. Like rather those big swings as opposed to like really comfortable swings. Mm-hmm. that are kind of like, here's what we know we'll do good. And like, here's a sequel to a game and it's the same game, but a little bit bigger and like, cool. Um, I, I would always kind of prefer to play something like sentiment, um, over, over something, you know, very safe and, and established even though I love those games, you know. No shade. God, A four Ragner rock on my, on my top 20 for the year. Mm-hmm. I think it's a phenomenal game in, in a lot of respects, but I also was kind of like, yeah, this, I, like, I played this you know, like this is the 20 18 1, like, turned up 2, 2 11 and like, that's cool. Again, I, I, I think it is a great game. I'm not, I don't wanna undersell it. Um, but, you know, I definitely like, thought more about Penman playing it. Um, I get it. And, you

know, it's, it is thought, it is a thought invoking game and it's almost like, you know, playing something you never played before always leaves an impression versus playing a, a sequel like I. I, no, I could play high on life right now. Yeah. And I've, I've played several hours of it, probably about to beat it. But then I can look back and remember like my time with Gears five and sure. Gears five is just a blank spot in my mind. I'm like, I know I played that game, but I cannot tell you what the hell happened at that game. Yeah.

Not a single detail. Yeah. Exactly. I

was like, I don't know what the hell happened in Gears five.

It was a Gears Award game. Cool. Mm-hmm. like, that's it. Um, yeah, totally. Like I'm, I'm, I'm absolutely with you on that. Like, that's, that's the kinda game I really like. So yeah. What's

the next game of the list? I'm let's the, the direction

we're going here. Yeah. I like it if, yeah. If I, hopefully I'm not going too long on it. Each of No, for sure. Go. Um, this, this is a weird one, especially cuz uh, I don't think that people under, like, I think this game undersold itself like very intentionally. Um, the Stanley Parable Ultra de. Now, I don't know if you got it right of playing Stanley Parable alter de legs. So the way they advertised it is like, this is the console port of Stanley Parable X amount of years later, you know, a decade later, whatever. Um, you know, like same game, right? Like it is, you know, just HD graphics or whatever. Um, that was a lie, And it's a very, it's a very intentional lie that they tell, um, because of what the game is trying to do. I don't wanna like fully spoil the, the trick of the game, but what I'll say is that like, if you like the original Stanley Parable and we're like, well, I don't need to play it again. I already played it. Go, just go play it. Cause like it. A full second game. I mean, like that, like, I'll stop short of calling it a sequel, but I think you actually probably could call it like a sequel to Stanley Parable. Um, and it is this really self-reflexive, um, very meta commentary about like, it's, it's, it's like a boat itself, right? Mm-hmm. Like it is about like, hey, we're making new content for the Stanley. We're re-releasing the Stanley parable. And because of that we have to make new content for it. Cuz if we're gonna re-release it, there has to be more stuff. And that's like the conceit of the project where like the original game is in it. But then like there's a door with a big glowing neon sign that says new content. And when you go in that door, the game like spirals quickly into like its own crazy odyssey. Um, without saying too much about it, Um, but what I will say about it is that, um, I think we are in an age right now. That is about content, right? Mm-hmm. it's like everything is content, content, content. People just want to consume like a million pieces of media, right? People want like more out of their ips, right? It's like next Star Wars give, gimme like the next Star Wars thing. Gimme like a thousand Marvel shows. Um, and, and there's just always this feeling of like, I don't gimme a moment of quiet. Like if I like a thing, give me more of it. Mm-hmm. and you saw that reflected in Game Game ips this year where like Silent Hill, it's getting a revival and it's gonna have 500 games, and it's like, okay, I guess if you like Silent Hill, you're gonna, that's the only thing you're gonna play for the next three years. Mm-hmm. um, assassins Creed had that thing this year where they were like, it's not enough to just tell you the next Assassins Creed game is coming. I'm gonna give you like six of 'em. Yeah. Basically, yeah. There's like six games coming at a TV show and five mobile games and like a hub that connects them all and like, this is gonna be your entire life, if you like Assassins Creed. Um, and what Stanley Parable, ultra Deluxe is a commentary of is like basically where we're at with that right now, where it's like, How do we take this thing that was like a very direct and specific piece of art that people like now love and like almost see as like an ip and like how do you just make more of that? Like it's meaningless to just like make more of this thing if it doesn't have anything to say. Um, and the game, like very much grapples with that question of like, why do we feel the need to just have more, you know, why do we feel the need to have more content? Like why do we need to feel like to, to just turn everything into this endless, endless cycle? There's like a scene in this game where like, um, there's like an audio recording that just over and over is looping. The end is never, the end is never, the end is never the end. And it's like this really haunting moment in the game where like, that's what we're in right now, right? This cycle of like, we, the, the content, you know, it just can't stop. Like we just have to have more and we have to have more. Um, and I, I think like if you, if that sounds interesting to you. Like if, if you are someone who thinks about, um, You know, games and, and like, thinks about, uh, media, just media and what mm-hmm. Yeah. Media, media in general, like movies, whatever. Um, and, and you think about that constant churn, you know, and you feel it, I think with like Marvel especially right now. Cause there, there's so many projects in the air, um, and Star Wars and whatnot. Um, I think it's really worth playing this. Um, if you've never played the original play through the original, then do all the extra content. If you have played the original, it'll ask you right at the beginning, have you played the original Click yes. Just go into the other thing. I mean, it's like a full, like, as long as the original game of new content. Um, and like, it is hysterical and self-reflexive and like bleak, like very bleak at times, uh, in a way that is interesting. Um, and, and like, I, I just think it is like one of the most, like, it's stuck with me this year more than. Like any, maybe even even my number one on this list, like a, anything in, in this year. Cause I, I just think it's so of the moment, and I don't think there's a piece of media right now that has like, grappled with that idea better of like the machine, right? Mm-hmm. of like, we don't value art anymore, we just value like content and like, what does that do to us Um, so yeah, that, that's, that's my like really left field number two, where I think every time I say it, people are like the port of the Stanley parable on consoles. And I'm like, no, no, listen. Got it. You gotta play it. Just trust me. Um, really great game. It sounds

like this game is reflective of like the, the big argument that's going around, especially since like the ar and the AI art like generator came out and such like that. Yeah, it is very much that question of like, you know, what is art? What isn't art? And then like, are we consuming too much media? There's a whole lot of that, that conversation going around. Couple of questions here about this. Yeah, please. Stanley Parable. Like what cons, well did you play in

console or pc? I think I played it on PC and I think I actually played it, like sat down on PC with that, not not steam deck. Um, but it is on, on everything. Um, I think pc uh, you know, I just see it as a PC game cuz the original was a PC game, which is why I played it there. Um, and also, you know, it's like. I dunno. I just want parody with like, I have the steam achievements for the first one important note. It has its own achieve. It's not like an upgrade for the Stanley Parable. So it has its like own set of achievements, which means that if you played the original Stanley Parable and you've been trying for years to get the achievement, that's don't open this game for five years. Don't worry. ultra Deluxe, ultra deluxe will not screw that up. Like it'll, it'll still go. And also Stanley Pedro Ultra Deluxe doubles that joke by adding an achievement that is don't play this game for 10 years. That, that is crazy. So funny because I like, love the game and I literally cannot play it for 10 years if I want the achievement. And like the, the fact that it is challenging me to not play it and like not continue to live in this thing is like also part of the point of the game. And like that is something that like, You know, the achievement. The first one was just kind of a funny joke. Mm-hmm. um, you know, like at the game it's about free will. So it's like kind of testing your free will where it's like, can, are you strong enough You know, like, do you have control over yourself? But this is like almost double that where it's like, don't play it. Like, do not, don't consume this. Or think about you. You did it. You had the experience. Like, you know, you don't make this your life. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, that's, yeah, that's the long answer to Is it a PC game?

That's, that's amazing. I didn't even know about those trophies.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You, I mean, if you played the original, you might have the five year one. That's, you just gotta like, load it up and see it'll like, pop. Oh,

that's amazing. I'm gonna have to check that out. So how long did it take you to beat

the, the original content? So the original game I think is like, you know, I think like if you do everything in it mm-hmm. it's like a four hour game, you know, it can be beaten a lot quicker. Beating is like a really weird term for people who haven't played this one. Mm-hmm. for, for I guess listeners who haven't played the original Stanley Parable, it is like, The premise of the original game is that you are a guy in an office and it is like a, a narrator starts like narrating your day and is like, Stanley got up from the computer and walked out the door and you know, you walk out the door because the voice tells you to. And what happens is that you start to like find these branches in the narrative where it's like he went left down this hallway, but then you decided to go right. And the narrator's like Stanley decided to go, right. I'm not sure why he did that. It's only like a storage closet down there. Like, I don't know why he's, he's going there and like the, the original game is about this concept of free will. It's about like, um, you know, going off the beaten path. Um, so because of that you can spend a lot of time in it, you know, cuz there's a bunch of like different endings that you can get to. Um, you know, it doesn't have like a defined ending. It's more of just like how much you. Find its jokes and whatnot. So the original, I think like you can get four hours of it out of it, and honestly like four hours for the new content as well. So it like basically is the same length as the original in, in new content. It is like, um, you know, a, a double length game in, in that regard. It's like, again, like a sequel within the original game, which is such a phenomenally weird and, and fantastic, uh, thing about it. So. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean that's the commentary. They're, they're like saying, you know, not to equalize everything, basically

something Don't do it. Yeah. There's, there's, uh, I, I won't spoil it, but there's like a really direct thing about that in the game that is like, so funny and like, just hysterical. Like, it's, it's such a, it's such a wild game,

man. That's so dope. So what's the last game of the list? Or is this

the second or the last? Oh, it's the last one. Yeah. Yeah, it's the last one. And then, you know, I can rattle off some things really quick at, at the end as well if we want. Um, my number one this, I feel like this one has become like more polarizing. I feel like it got like really well reviewed and then people were kind of like going back and forth on it. Um, immortality. Uh, I loved it. Absolutely love it. Okay, cool. We're on, we're on the same page. I absolutely love it. I had to bring it up cuz there are some people I've talked to who are like, uh, that game's like really cynical and like, I don't like it. Um, I think it's amazing. I mean, I really like have not played anything like it. I, I've liked Sam Barlow's games, um, since her story, like I mm-hmm. I've followed his work. I've liked everything he's put out. Um, and I think that this is like, so above and beyond like everything that he was experimenting with and like her story and, and telling lies. Um, just in, in every way. Uh, I guess to set the stage for listeners who maybe don't know about it, um, immortality is a kind of F M V game where you're looking at like real filmed footage. Um, the premise of the game is that you are trying to figure out, uh, what happened to this actress, Marissa Marcel, who made three movies that were never released and then disappeared. And you're almost playing the role of like a film archivist where you're like at one of those old school editing bays, you know, like Moviolas, and you're just like looking through clips and the clips are from her three movies. They're like dailies from onset, they're like behind the scenes footage, you know, location scout footage, table reads, interviews, whatever, all of this archival stuff. And you're just trying to figure out like, what the hell happened? You know, like where did she go by going through like three dec like movies that spanned a couple of decades. There's like a sixties, seventies, and like nineties thing. Um, and it is like this deconstructed mystery game. I, I always, I always call it like a deconstructed true crime podcast. Mm-hmm. where. A, a true Crime podcast like puts everything together for you, right? And it's like, Hey, we took all the pieces, we found all the pieces of the story, and we are laying them out in a really clear timeline so you can understand it. And like immortality is like, no, you're the researcher who has to put that timeline together. Like you're the person who's like sourcing all of these clips and being like, what the hell happened? And like, I need to put this in an order so that people can understand it. Um, so it's like this deconstructed mystery game that I always describe as, um, it's like a lot of game, a lot of media, I'll say ime like mystery media in general. Like my problem with a lot of it, uh, is that like it's a box of, it's a box of puzzle pieces. Mm-hmm. you know, that's what, so what's winning mystery is, and a lot of media like puts the pieces together for you, right? It's like they're giving you them one by one and then they're like, see, this one connects here and this one connects here. And then like, at the end of it, they made the puzzle for you. And I'm always like, I didn't really solve anything you just told me. You know, like, maybe, maybe I figured it out before the ending, but like, you know, I didn't, I didn't solve anything. Um, and immortality is like a game, the the rare piece of like mystery media where like it just gives you the box of puzzle pieces and it's like, go find clips. The mechanic of the game is that you like discover more clips by clicking on things in the frame. You know, like you click on a person's face, it'll find another clip that person's in and go to it. You click on like a prop in the scene and it's like, here's that prop in another scene. Um, so like you are finding puzzle pieces. You're going through the box, you're pulling them out and being like, where does this connect to? Like, let me try to find another piece that like, you know, maybe is like close to it in sequence. And there's no like mechanic of like actually sequencing it together. It's all mental. It's this big mental puzzle. Do I get the story? Do I understand what happened? Um, and then there's another layer of it, on top of all of this that is like a, a like psychological horror layer that I won't go too deep into, I guess Um, but like that, that completely changes what the game is. Um, and, and gets into like, uh, a much like deeper kind of like heady commentary, um, about like, you know, art. Mm-hmm. but, but beyond art, you know, kind of like, hey art. Like, sometimes like, you know, art is this like, beautiful thing that people are so passionate about, but like sometimes there are things that exploit it. You know, there are like systems of power that exploit art. Like, like in this case, Hollywood, you know, where they're kind. Doing kind of like they, they're really extorting like the, the passion of these people. Um, and I think like there's just a lot to chew on with it. I think there's an element of it, um, that I read the game as like, also asking the viewers about that. Mm-hmm. where it's kind of like talking about the way that we project ourselves into art, you know, and it's like, oh, I wish that were me. Or like, oh, I'm picturing myself in this. Um, and how like we take over you know, like these people who are very real, like we put ourselves into their shoes instead and like consume them, you know? Mm-hmm. in, in a weird way. Um, and it's just asking a lot of like really difficult questions about like, you know, yes art is this beautiful and amazing and, and passionate thing, but like, you know, there, there're also things about it that like, it gets exploited because of that. Um, and, and there are things about it that like, you know, there, there's a darker underbelly to that and I think that's, Some people have like, read this game as cynical and been like, this is a game about how art is bad. Like what a, what a shallow and stupid thing to say, but like, I don't think it's about that, you know, it's not about like, if anything is good or bad, it's just like this interrogation of something that is very real, which is like, you know, like a lot of work goes into this stuff and like that is kind of manipulated and exploited sometimes. Um, and it's just such a cool game. Like, I I, I mean if, you know, for folks who haven't played it, it is on Game Pass, but like also if you have Netflix, um, it is like on the Netflix app, yeah, it's available. Like you have it on your phone, you have it. If you have an account, go to the app store and download it. Like you have it on your phone. It is like, like watching a movie, you know, like an interactive movie. Um, and, uh, it's not for everybody. Like none of these games that I put on this poster for everybody, like, I guess except Eldon Ring, but even then, not really. Um, but like, I think if, if that sounds interesting to you and if you're someone that like likes, you know, That kind of like mental puzzle game. Um, and, and if you're someone who like, loves cinema history as well, like this thing just goes really deep into like, you know, it, it's doing a recreation of sixties, like, you know, Italian JLo, which was like this whole like smutty, you know, like form of cinema and like recreating like the seventies, like psychosexual, thriller and whatnot. Um, and like that stuff is just really fun on its own where it's like these pitch perfect, like recreations down to like the aspect ratio and the matte paintings and everything of the era. Um, so like, if, if you're especially like a cinema history buff, which I am, you know, like it's, it's a treat in that respect. Um, but yeah, I just think nothing is like it. And, uh, it, it's, it's like, I would say like this Stanley Parable impediment, especially like three games where I'm like, nothing is like, you know, nothing are like these. Mm-hmm. you know, in, in like, in what they're doing is, is so next level. Um, and hard to recommend because of it. But, but like I appreciate that. Um, so yeah, that's, that's what I think. I'm glad to hear you liked it though. I

really enjoyed it. I came in this really blind because I, while I heard of her story, like I never actually dove into playing it. It was one of the games on my backlog list, but yeah. Yeah. But I've heard a lot of good things about Sam Barlow games, but this was the first one where I really just took the dive in by the way, if you're like, if you have the experience of doing like backseat gaming to where you like playing with a significant other around you, this is the perfect game for that. Everyone totally. Like this is that kind of game where you and your partner or whoever you're with can like, try to piece together like what the hell is exactly going on in this situation and what the hell is going on with this like, game entirely.

Yeah, it's like, it's a, it's a conversation game. Like I played it alone, but like, it's almost like you can play it like a multi-player game, like you said, where like, it, it begs discussion because it begs like, what the hell happened? Or like, click on this, I wanna see where this goes. Um, and even just like really begs conversations about like, what's it about, you know, and like, what's it talking about? Um, you know, like it's been really fun to talk to people about it and, and get different perspectives on it. Um, you know, not just about like, like about the core story, you know, which like has so many like, weird aspects of it, but even just like talking to people and being like, what do you think it's about? You know, what do you think it's saying about art and whatnot? Um, and people have like, wildly different interpretations of it. Um, even the ones I really disagree with and think are like, not like, I think are totally off. Like, I'm really interested to hear them because it's like, oh yeah. Like I, I understand how you arrived at that. Like, I disagree. Here's, here's what I think it's actually about. Um, but I think that like games. Lack that sometimes. Right? Like thematically, games are kind of thin sometimes. Mm-hmm. right? Like it's, yeah, they're like about things, you know, but like, they're usually pretty clear about it. Like, you know, it's surface level. Yeah. You don't get like art house cinema games so much where it's like, you know, the tree of life situation of like mm-hmm. what the hell is he trying to say with this? Um, and I, uh, I think it's really cool that we have a game like that. I think it's really important that we have a game like that because like, I'm, I'm just big on like, for me, the mark of like, gaming becoming, like, reaching its full form and becoming like, I think what it should be. Mm-hmm. is where we, where we get past the conversations of like, oh, my criticisms of this game are like, it doesn't play well or it has bugs and whatnot, like mm-hmm. I wanna get to a point where the criticisms we have of the game are like, thematically this game doesn't work because of X, Y, and Z. Or it does work because of X, Y, and Z. Like, um, That was something with the last first part too, that I actually appreciated. Were like, a lot of the things about that game are unimpeachable when it comes to like the tech, which is great because it lets you have debates on whether or not it actually makes any sense, like from a thematic level. And, and those debates are way, way more interesting to me. And like, I loved talking about that game because of it, cuz it was like, I don't think this makes sense, or I think this, this part does and this part doesn't. Um, and those are just the conversations I think like are important to gaming. Mm-hmm. Like if we want to mm-hmm. have it be like a better medium and growing medium. Yeah. Y yeah. And, and like things that are worth talking about. And like you said, like being able to sit down with another person and like play it and, and have those conversations live. Like it is the perfect game for it. It really is like such a, such a special. Yeah,

you know, it's funny that you brought up the last of us too, because like I, that is probably one of the most thought-provoking AAA games I've probably played in the last, like, maybe 10 years to where like, yeah, good. To where like the conversations around that game, for better or for worse, whether you liked it, whether you didn't, there were you all, everyone had their opinions about that and everyone Yeah. You know, talked in a deeper understanding and a deeper layers of conversation. There was more nuance conversations Totally.

About that game. Yeah. Yeah, because like, because again, like there's nothing to complain about with like, I mean, the action's tight, it looks amazing. Like every, you know, it's not buggy like when that stuff is all out of the way and like the craft element of like, we have perfected how to make a game that runs well and works well and everything. Once you get that outta the way, you can get to the conversations that actually matter, which are. This game is talking about cyclical violence. Does it do a good job at it? You know? Mm-hmm. and like how does its story fail and how do its mechanics, you know, support it or not support it. Um, and I think that's why the first one is like amazing, uh, you know, as well, cuz it like, you know, also reached that gap. Oh yeah. Um, and yeah, immortality for me is like a game that also does that, where it's like, this thing is so like iron clad on a craft level, like the acting mm-hmm. how it's put together, like the direction of it. Um, that like we can just talk about. What, you know, like what it's about and the fact that there were conversations of people being like, I think actually it's cynical and like it's doing this is way more interesting than people being like, I don't know how it, like, I don't know about the controls of this game. You know? Mm-hmm. like, wow, that's so cool. Like, I love that

Yeah. It is a completely different conversation. Um, like all three of these games, you know, all three of the last games we were talking about, like are completely different conversations than what you and I would probably be talking about, about like Pokemon Scarlet and Violet right

now. Yeah, right. Exactly. Absolutely. Completely. We're, we're not having conversations about like what that game story is about. Mm-hmm. Right? It's just like, well, the thing doesn't work. That's a bummer. We can't get to the point where we're talking about like, is this an effective children's story? You know? Mm-hmm. like Exactly. It's just lost. Yeah, for sure.

Giovanni, I'm curious about something you, like, a lot of the games you suggested are very thought provoking games. Uh, yeah. What games did you play this year, or what was your main game that you played this year when you just wanted

to sit down and chill and. Absolutely. Uh, it, I mean, vampire survivors, um, that, I mean, that's like, just off the list that we talked about. Mm-hmm. um, vampire Survivors is, is phenomenal and like, in some way changed the way I think about video games this year. And like, what I like about them. Um, I played Vampire Survivors when it came out or not when it came out. Cause it came out last year and mm-hmm. Uh, I think like, I, I started playing it in February or something, and I wasn't into it at first. I like didn't really get it. I was like, this is like, it feels like a waste of time, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I, it's fun, but like, I don't quite get it. Um, and then like, there was just a point when clicks 1.0 dropped click. Yeah. It just clicked. And I was like, who care? Like, who Care who cares? Like, it's just, it's just really satisfying to like walk around and like, You know, have this low energy game and, and feel really powerful. Uh, you know, because I'm making these really impactful decisions. Um, you know, and, and it's not systems heavy, and it's not like I have to know a bunch of buttons and whatnot. Mm-hmm. like, it, it scratches that idle game itch, but like, it scratches that dynasty warriors itch at the same time. Um, it's like, you know, I, I have like issues with it. Like, I, I still think there were times where like, I get 25 minutes to do a run and die, and I'm like, that was a waste of my time. Exactly. I, I'll never get it back. Mm-hmm. But like those moments where you have a successful run, like those were some of the best moments I hadn't given this year. And like, it's a time machine and that was so important. Like, if I was on an airplane, like, you fire that game up and you have landed you know, like six hour plane ride, like mm-hmm. no, it's, it's done in 30 minutes. You know, like you, you look up and you're like, oh, I'm in, I'm in Indiana right now. Mm-hmm. um, like that, that was my like, I think go-to, um, where I was just like, Let's unwind. I kept coming back to it, like every month I probably came back to it and there was always more stuff. And like, there was just enough stuff, like with every update where I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get back into it. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna play some of this new stuff for like a week and then I'm gonna drop it mm-hmm. And then in a month I'll come back to it and there's gonna be like a bunch of other new stuff that I can do. I'll play that for a few days and then I can drop it you know? And like, it's just like every time I come back to it, there will be something new to do. And I love that cadence that mm-hmm. that release schedule they hit where it's like, play this like a couple times a month for a few days and then like when you come back there, there will be more and like, there'll be reason to fire it up. Um, and I wish more games kind of had that like small cadence mm-hmm. where it was like really training people to be like, Hey, play this game in short verse, you know, like, have your, have your few days with it and then like, we'll let you know when an update's at and. It'll be a smaller update that'll give you a good reason to come back to it because the game is really fun to play. Um, that was, that was the big one for me. And then I think the other one was just Platoon three. Um, you know, loves Platoon, uh, played like a hundred hours of that game this year. I, I just think like, it's, it's a great, great version of that game. It has everything going for it, you know, the, the multiplayer is, you can play it casually, but then you can like, play it hardcore, get into the rank stuff, the ppv e mode, like you can really get into, it's a really strong PPV e mode. Um, you know, just like there's, there's a creative element to it. There's the style and expression of it. Um, that game was great. And then Marvel Snap. Yeah. Really big go-to I mean, obviously like, that's, that's the ultimate answer. Like, I've played a ton of Marvel Snap this year, just like laying on the couch, cat sleeping on my stomach, and it's like, well, I can't move and I don't have a controller near me, so like, I'm just gonna fire Marvel, snap and play a bunch of rounds and like, it's gonna be fun every single time. Uh, like, it, it, it never gets old. Um, and those are all games that are like, Just down my list, you know? Mm-hmm. if we were to keep going. So definitely a lot of those, like I, I think like the heady, big experiences are like the ones that I like the most in a year. Mm-hmm. But I think once you come down to like the rest of my list, it's always those like fun first kind of like. This was really satisfying to play. Um, you know, like, so, so there's a balance for me for sure. Um, you know, I definitely like both of those things a lot. You

know, I wanna ask you something on a deeper level, do you think Vampire Survivors is about to change the way people develop games going forward? Because Pinacle did this really cool thing to where they took what people really like about mobile games and what really is addicting about the mobile aspect and made it into a console kind of experience and yeah, they, they took something that's very simple, I don't want to shortchange them, but probably on the more simplistic side of game development to Totally, yeah. Actually execute, but like, They created something that people just can't get enough of. And to your point, they figured out the formula like they did what Halo Infinite has struggled to do. They they have, yes. Very much like they've figured out like how to do the longevity game of like, give you bite size pieces of content versus just trying to wait until we can give you another entree. Like, just give me more.

Yeah, absolutely. I, I mean, I hope it has an effect. Um, I think it will to some extent. I don't know that it'll have like a huge, huge impact because again, like, I think it's like, you know, major studios, right? Like, Sony's not gonna be able to figure out a way to capitalize on that, right? No, for sure. Not they're, they're just, they're not gonna be able to make like a tiny game that is like a $5 game that, that, um, makes enough money for them to make it worthwhile. But I do wonder if you will see a couple of like, larger scale games that take ideas from it. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I think it'll be a question of like, If they take the right lessons from it. Um, you'll see d n a of it, like I think in five, four or five years in, in huge games where I think that you'll see like, oh, maybe like simplified controls can work. You know, like maybe, maybe we can streamline these things a little bit more. Or like, what if we just give people really impactful decisions? Or what if we like give people more passive, you know, gameplay elements that like are satisfying. I think you'll start to see some of that. Um, I think you'll see most of it in indie games though. I think it'll have a huge, huge impact on indie games. I think you'll see a hundred games like vampire survivors. Yeah, for sure. Which, which is great. Like I think you'll see developers who are like able to make smaller projects that are just like a really good core idea and like, that's what's so cool about vampire survivors is it's like, hey, for the. A few, two decades, right? Or whatever games have been getting bigger and bigger, I mean, for the past forever, I guess. Mm-hmm. bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the scale and scope keeps going up. And like it is untenable at where it is now. Right? Like open world games have just gotten to this point of like, this is maximalism and it is boring You know, like, it's so boring. Like it's unbelievable. Um, and like, I think Vampire Survivors prove is like a red, like a reductionist project, right? That's like, like a structuralist piece of media that's like, what if we stripped all of that back and we just like, what is fun about a video game? It at its most basic primal level of like, firing things in your brain. Let's take the graphics back down to zero. You know, let's, let's take the controls back down to zero. What is fun? Um, and I hope that we see that more. And, and I think there were other games that like got at that this year, you know, less. Mm-hmm. popularly. Um, I think the play date. The, like handheld with a cranky. That's a good example. Yeah. Yeah. Like the play date plays with that idea a lot where it's like we're making a piece of hardware that has like the most simplified controls and graphics possible, and we are challenging developers to figure out like these primitive games to play on it that are just like, really fun, you know, and, and like use this crank, which to this new control method. And like how do you go back to the drawing board? How do you go back from square one and reinvent games? You know, like go back to, go back to the game, boy, let's start over. What can we do new? Um, and I hope that we see that more. I hope that there's more space for like $3, $5 game that like didn't take a ton of time to create, but like is just structurally so good. Um, and, and I think you'll see it mostly in indies and then I think you'll. Design influence in much bigger games. I wonder if someone like Sony will like try to release their own, like really small, like $20, you know, like mm-hmm. maybe we'll do like a mid-size thing. Um, but yeah, I, it's hard for me to imagine studios like the major, like, you know, EA and, and UBS or whatever, really like fully embracing it. Um, it, it feels like a thing that like only. An Indie spirit can really do. But who knows? I mean, you know, it's a, it is a, a game, award-winning game, you know, might Yeah, for sure. It might, it might break some waves. Who knows?

You know, I ask because like, you know, uh, like video games or trends are weird to me because like you, some of the things you think would be trends, like Breath of the Wilds climbing system, for instance, like I thought after, after I experienced that, I was like, okay, this is climbing going forward in video games, but it grinded into like a halt other than like the immortal Phoenix Risings of the world. Yeah. Like we didn't really see that, you know, mechanic in any other game. And I'm like, either it's extremely hard to figure out, or no one was like brave enough to copy it. So I was, I couldn't figure out why

that trend never caught on. It takes time. I think that's the big thing, like games take a really, like, especially AAA games just take a really long time to develop and like by the time Breath of the wild would come out, you know, it's like even games that were. Early in development, like they'd probably already figured out how they were gonna do climbing in the game or whatnot. And it's like hard to just kind of like pivot on the fly and be like, oh, let's just take that. Um, and I think like, you know, 2020 was the first year that we started to see like the breath of the wild influenced game. Like fully come out. It's like three years, you know, was like enough time to get some of that stuff out. Um, and I, you know, I, I think there are bits and pieces of it in some games, you know, like obviously we don't see it in the Eldon ring. You know, we don't see it in Horizon and whatnot. Um, I mean, horizon

tried with, uh, the scan and then like select areas

become like climb. Yeah. It, it got not to that same extent. Not to the same extent. Yeah. But, but you're right. Like it definitely did like start to get to it a little more. And, and I think you'll like, I think you'll see it more. But yeah, I don't know. That's, that's something that feels so fundamental to me, where it's like, obviously this is the best thing to do. you know, like just feels, it, it just give me the freedom to do it. Um, and, and I think you'll see more games that adopted. I also think it's a stylistic thing. I think games that are trying to be realistic, just don't want it to be that you can climb rocks if it doesn't feel like your character should be able to climb rocks. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I think that's part of it too. I think there is like a style thing to it, and I think that's why Horizon uses the, the compromise that it does. Um, but, you know, I, I think, yeah, it's, it's a mix of things. I, I, you might start to see it a little bit more, maybe starting this year, but like, I, you know, I think it, I think it's just a matter of like, does it suit the, uh, the, the realism that they're going for and whatnot. And like, unfortunately, most games just aim for ultra realism. So like, You know, but they have to be tedious, I guess. Yeah, for

sure. For sure. So Giovanni, one last question before we get to our pro nerd section of the, of the podcast. What is your most anticipated game for 2023? The one you're looking forward to, that that just makes your eyes light up, that makes you go like, Ooh, I, I got to have

that entree on my podcast. Got it. I've been thinking about this so much cuz I, last year I had so many of these lined up and then like this year I feel like I don't, um, there there's a bunch that, you know, like they're the obvious ones, right? Like Breath of the Wild or sorry, tears of the Kingdom. We, we can't call Breath of the Wild too anymore. If it's

natural though. It feels so right. Call it Breath of the Wild too, though.

I might, I might just keep doing it. Like, I'm sorry. Like, obviously excited for that. Um, you know, I've played some Street Fighter six and it's amazing and I'm, I'm really excited for that. Um, you know, resonating before remake, like, cool. I'm, I'm interested that, that'll be cool. Um, the, the one that I think I. Really, and, and maybe it's gonna come out next year and maybe it's not. I have no idea. We'll see. Um, final Fancy Seven Rebirth. I'm extremely, mm-hmm. interested in, I love Final Fancy seven remake. Um, I, I think it's. Phenomenal. I, I, in like a really, in a way that is really difficult because like mm-hmm. It is, it is is explicitly not a remake. Like it is, the word remake is like a joke in the title very loose because it's, yeah. Well it's, you know, it's like a game that is a commentary about the idea of remaking something, right? It's like this huge meta thing about like, God, there, if we do a remake, we are bound by fate to make this thing a certain way, but we don't wanna do that. And like, the whole game is this like, existential struggle with that. And like, you know, the word remake and the title is like, this is a game about making a remake. It's not mm-hmm. It's not a remake. Um, so I'm really curious to see how Rebirth follows that up, because it's gonna be pretty much, I, my guess is it's gonna be a completely different thing. It's gonna be like a totally, like loosely you know, like connected story that is not final fancy seven. Um, and, and I'm curious to see if they can keep up that like really heady, kind of like deep element that I think made, uh, remake like, Really, really exciting. Mm-hmm. um, you know, and really like, like I still think about that game like a lot and, and what it has to say about like free will and Destiny and, and these things. Um, I think that's gonna be a hard thing to do twice. I'm really curious to see how they do it. I, you know, the crisis court remake just like, decided not to It was like, nah, we're just, this is just a remake. Like, we're not, we're, we're not doing that. Like, that's a pain in the ass. They're like, we're doing this straight up this time. Yeah. We're, we're just like, we're putting, we're putting assets over the, over the scenes. Like we don't care guys. mm-hmm. Um, so, so yeah. I, I hope that, um, rebirth can keep that energy up and if it does, like I will be really excited about it. Um, and then I think just like the small example I'll give just to, to give some an knee game, some shine is, um, there's this indie coming out that I'm really excited about called the Gecko Gods. Oh, I heard that. I heard about that one. Yeah. It's been on, it's been on my radar since like, I think E 3 20 20 or something like that. It was during a showcase. Really beautiful. Like, it looks like it's maybe like a little open-ended, but you're just a gecko. Mm-hmm. and you're like moving around these ancient ruins and it looks like the vibe is immaculate, you know, like, it, the colors are beautiful and it just looks like very chill and very quiet. Um, it reminds me of like Sable, which is game that I like, really, really love Sable. Um, and that's style of games. So that, that's like the, the indie that I'm most intrigued by. I hope it's good. Like, you know, I'm, I'm going in this year like a little blind, uh, which is fun. Like I know all the big releases, you know, like I know you're, you're Spidermans and you're final fancy sixteens. Um, don't know much about what's coming from the indie scene this year. Like a lot of the games I had in my, the, the, my finger on the pulse of like have come out. So, uh, I'm, I'm just excited to be surprised and, and find stuff again. Usually my year endless are 90% like games I had not heard of going into the year. And, and I love that. And, uh, I, I hope to see that again. Yeah. Umm,

uh, did you place some

noice, by the way? Uh, not the whole thing. I, I need to, I need to play the ending of it. Mm-hmm. um, I got like halfway through it. I really liked it. Um, I got a little frustrated with parts of it, like the Oh, I understand. The inventory system was like too much. Mm-hmm. I, I was just like, I'm just juggling items around constantly and like, I, you know, it's like, not in a fun way, you know, whatever. Um, but, but I've heard that. I, I really need to get to the ending of it for it to click, so I'm like, I gotta get to it. Is that like your, was that your big game this year? Uh, no. Like

I had several, like, like yourself, I like to shout out some indies and a lot of the games that I like cover on the podcast, I usually like, do like indie highlight of the week. So like a lot of 'em were on the indie scale and like, I fell in love with this game, little Game called Jack Move. I don't know if you heard of it, but Yeah.

Yeah. Jack Move was cool. Mm-hmm. really, really cool game. Yeah. Really en, really

enjoyed Jack Move. Perilla is a throwback to Doom that I really liked. Um, um, Thia is a game that's kind of similar to Bloodborne in a, in a lot of different ways. That kind of clicked with me for a little bit there. Um, beacon Pines was another, yeah. Pines cute. It was another one that I've kind of, so I was kinda all over the indie spear for this year. Rogue Legacy Two, like sucked the life out of me for like, the majority of this year.

Amazing. Yeah. That came on my top 10. It's, it's phenomenal. I feel like I, I feel like people did not talk about it as much as they should have for like such a. Damn fine tune, like Roguelike I was so

shocked too, cuz I, I thought for sure when that came out, I was just like, this is what the conversation's gonna be for like the Yeah. At least the next three months. And like, no one talked about it. And I'm like, what happened? I'm like, do we not remember that Rogue Legacy won was like

king for a little bit. My theory is just like when games come out in early access mm-hmm. like, sites are really like media. Like, I'll, I'll put myself on blast. Like, I think, I think media is like really eager to cover it when it comes out and be like, oh, we're covering it like 2020. It, it's launched and then like, they're less eager to cover it when like, the 1.0 actually hits. Mm-hmm. And I think that happened a bunch this year where it was like Tear Down came out the 1.0 this year. Nobody talked about it. Uh, hardship, uh, hard, hard space. Ship breaker. Really great game. Came out into 1.0 this year. Nobody talked about it. Dorfer, manque, really fantastic game. Also on my list. again, had its moment two years ago or, or last year or something came out in 1.0, people were like, we already wrote about it, we don't wanna write about it again. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I think that's kind of what happens sometimes where it's like, you know, when the, that's the, the, the gift and the curse of early access. Right. It's like this fantastic, really useful thing, but like, if people already had, like, had the moment with it mm-hmm. the first time. Mm-hmm. Like, it's, it's hard to get them to return to it if they've already bounced off it. So I think it got cursed by that. Like I think if it had just launched as a full game, um, it would've get gotten talked about it a lot more, but it also wouldn't have been nearly as good as it was if it hadn't gone through early access. Yeah. So that's for, you know, the balance of it. It's a double edged sword for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. So Giovanni, are you ready for the toughest challenge that you'll probably ever

experience in your life? I think so, because I feel like I'm gonna flop this I feel like my, my trivia knowledge for nerd stuff, like despite playing so much stuff, I feel like. Like memory is like not actually good in my comprehension. Like I feel like this is gonna like really help me as like a total, like casual Seriously? No,

I think the, the thing is, is like it's so many different categories and there's so many different areas of nerdom I think you, you are forgiven for, for slipping in different areas, you know? Okay. Okay. So, Yeah. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for, are you a pro nerd? The trivia portion of our show where we ask our guests and we determine on whether or not they're a pro nerd. So the rule goes as the rules goes as follows, we basically read out five different questions. The the wheel of fate, which can be a fickle wheel. Indeed decides the, um, it decides the categories of the questions asked. You know, um, at the fifth question, we give our contestants A category A or B, they get to choose their, their fate. Uh, you know, we will not let them know what, which ones they've chosen until they've chosen A or B, but you know, they kind of get to decide their faith there. Other than that, you know, we'll see if they can answer all five questions and become a pro nerd. So far, we've only have one pro nerd in the Hall of Fame. Let's see if we add another. So, Giovanni?

Yes. Let's go. You ready? Let's do it. Yeah. I mean, as ready as I could possibly be for.

All right, let's do it. So spin in the wheel right now. 1, 2, 3. Round and round. Round it goes. When it stops. Oh, it has stopped. All right, so here we go. In the

realm of Pokemon. Oh yeah. Okay. Well, good start. Okay.

Good start. Okay. He's feel confident about this, I think so. He feels confident about this person. Like what was the spokesman Pokemon? The legendary Pokemon for Pokemon Crystal.

Uh, one on the box if I, well, if we're talking one on the box, um, that was su What's it? Sequin. The legendary. Yeah. We'll, we'll count it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was that, was that the right one? Yeah, that's, that's the

right one? Yes. Okay. That's the right

one. Pokemon's. Pokemon's. The one I, the, the, my like real expertise. I have a lot of. Childhood memories with it. So, whew. That that was

a, you know, that was a deep cutting. You like, cut that. Like, it was nothing. I'm impressed. Oh yeah. Thank you. Like, because I, you know, I would've, you know, I, I know Hoho pretty well. Uh, I remember, I remember him from that. That's the gold version, right?

Yep. And then Lu Gaz on mm-hmm. uh, silver. Silver. Mm-hmm. Crystal's really tough because most of the, like, you know, Emerald, or like the third game is usually like the third legendary mm-hmm. but Golden Silver didn't have the third legendary, so it just took one of the three dogs and put it on. Exactly. Which like was, which was a weird thing to do. Um, so that is a really tricky question that that's a great one. But I know my Pokemon Box Art Yeah. You did good. You did really

good. All right. So in the realm

of Lord of the Rings. Okay. Are you Perme pretty familiar with this Ip Re Yeah, I read, I, I mean it was a big Lord of the Rings kid as a kid, but I feel like, I don't know the lore of it as well as anymore, but we'll see. We will

sing, we'll see. So, In the movie, the two towers.

Okay. Who is

Soran Spy in

Rohan? Ooh. Oh man, that's so tough. Um, oh, that's a good one. Jesus Soran Spy was, I don't know if I can pull it. I don't know if I can pull it. I mean, part of me just wants to say like, it was a, a, a yuka that I don't know the name of, but, uh, I, I, I think I just, I don't have it. I don't, I wanna say Boromir, but I think he dies in the first one. And, yeah. Not a spy so I'll just say that just to be wrong about something. But yeah, good guess. That

was a very good guess. But the answer is Grandma

Worm. Ooh, okay. Yeah, no, I would not have gotten that. Oh, geez.

You remember, um, in Roan, they, they pulled the spy out and they throw him out of the, out of like the, the big like king's hut, so, so to speak. He was like, he had dark hair and they, and like Aragon and all them wanted to kill him and they sent him riding

out. Yeah. That was him. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad I'm not gonna get zero cuz of Pokemon So like, I'm honestly, I get bombing the rest of this and I'll be sight. Yeah, you do. You're doing pretty

good though. One, one from one right now, so I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's

not bad at

all. Yeah, that's not bad at all. All right, so let's spin the wheel again. Let's see where it lands. Round and round and round it goes and it has stopped. The will has graciously given

you DC. DC sure. Okay. I know a little bit. A little bit. Okay. A little bit.

So historically speaking, only one person has gotten any DC questions, right? So far. Okay. It's actually, it's actually been our, probably our hardest

category. Okay. I used to read, I mean, I used to read, I had like a DC stint with the comics in, uh, in college. So maybe I'll know some deep cut Oh,

okay. Okay. That's, that's not bad at all. All right. All right. Who is the only superhero that was a member of both the Justice League and Marvel's Avengers.

Wow. And the Avengers. Uh, yeah. I, I,

when they pulled up this question, I'm surprised cuz I, this is a deep cut that I didn't know either.

I'm guessing there was probably some like weird universe crossover at some point in like the eighties or mm-hmm. some weird thing. Um, which makes me think that maybe it would be like a really popular hero because it was like some huge crossover event. But then there's also the possibility that it's just like a total, nobody who's like a, you know, a absolutely no one. Um, the, like, it's not one of the watchmen. It's Am I misremembering? There's something being about one of the watchmen. No, it can't be it. That can't be right. We'll see.

You wanna take the guess?

Um, I, I, I kind of want to go the easy route. It, it like, and I know it's not gonna be right. Um, and, and say like, captain America or something crossed over. That is a really good guess.

Uh, it's a really good guess. It is another core adventure, uh, Avenger by the name of

Hawkeye. Really? Yeah. That, that shocks me. What a weird one. That is a really weird one. Do you, what was the context? Does it say there? Like what, what, what? Let me read how that crossover came together. Let

me read

it really quick. Yeah. God, you're right. That's a god hard category.

Yeah, it, that one is a really hard one. Um, major, like the last person who did this category missed, um, I think the question was, what was the alias the name for? Um, Hawkman.

Oh geez. Oh, I don't remember that either. Yeah. Yeah.

So it looks, what is saying right here is there is a character, it is not Clint Barton in the realm of dc but there is a, another character in DC that goes by the Ilias of

Hawkeye. Oh. So it's not the same Hawkeye, but it's so it's not the same. Yeah. It's just Oh, okay. Okay. That makes sense. Double named so to speak. Yeah. Cuz in my head I was like, oh, there must have been a crossover event. Mm-hmm. like in the one year where they were like, oh, let's work together. Um, okay. That. That makes more sense. Hawkeye, I was gonna say like Quicksilver for something like that. I was like, maybe there's a Quicksilver in the, you know, thing that would've been, or like a Captain Marvel. Like, I feel like there's like some weird DC Captain Marvel equivalent. Mm-hmm. Um, okay, cool. That'd been a good one. Yeah. Yeah.

Hawkeye. So, so spin in the wheel. So looks like you've missed two. You got one, correct?

Yeah. I just wanna get two, right? I feel like that'll, I'll be happy with two I think you'll

get there. I think you'll get there. We'll see. So in the realm of

Harry Potter, no, it's not gonna be this one. We'll see it's not gonna be, never read a Harry Potter book. Uh, and in my life, ed, so this is gonna be a tough one, but let's see if, let's see if I've absorbed knowledge of Harry Potter. Okay. From other people from the culture. Okay. So

where in King's Cross station does the Hogwarts Express stop?

Uh, The only thing I know about the trains in Harry Potter is that there's like platform. Is it nine and a half? Is that, but that's not, that's not, that's where he runs New Wall or something. Or 11 and a half. Oh, there's a number and a half. Uh, this is probably not what the answer is either way. I'm gonna say platform nine and a half. My God, you're so

close. You are so close. Was it? Oh damn, what was it? You're so close. It is nine and

three quarters. Oh, come on, It's nine and three quarters. Oh, Jesus Christ. I, ugh. It's hilarious that, that's like the one I actually don't know anything about in, it's the closest I've gotten in the last three. Uh, so close

on that. That was a really good cast though. Uh, that was really

impress. Fraction fraction wrong. Yeah, I'll take the L on it.

That's a really good guess. So the last one is in the realm of the M C

U. Okay. This one, oh wait, wait. Might be possible. Wait. Oh

no. Oh, no, no, no. I made an error as the, as the host. My apologies to you. We have option A and option B. Oh, sure. Okay. And option A. So, and one of these happens to be an M C U MCU question. The other one is in a completely different category. So would you rather risk it all for the, and since I made the error, I will tell you the option B is M C U. So, okay. Option B is M C U. Option A is a completely different character. So if you're feeling strong about your M C U knowledge,

you can pick option B. But you way I I, I do actually feel relatively strong about M C U, so I think I'm gonna go with that, even though it would be more fun to do the random guess. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'm gonna end up with something that's like, What, what do you know about like, the Alien franchise? And I'm gonna be like some things um, M MCU U but tell me, but it, it revealed to me at the end what the other category would've been to see if this is a mistake. Oh, we, we,

we do a bonus question. Okay. So you, you'll, you'll go through that. Okay. Okay. That reality, so to speak. Perfect.

All right.

Okay. All right. So, in the world, the M C U, what event was Tony participating in when he was first attacked by Ivan Vanko?

Ivan Vanko is the whiplash, I believe. Oh, God. I don't have that wrong. If I have that wrong, I've screwed from the, from the beginning. Um, assuming that that's right, which it's possible that it's not, and I am mixing up my villains, assuming that it is whiplash. Um, it is an F1 event. He's, he's racing and he, he comes and he gets on the track and he gets 'em with the, the things. I don't know the exact race that it was, but I'll say the Daytona 500

I, um, we're just gonna give you F1 event because it was the Monaco, um,

grand Bricks. Okay. It was an F1 thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'll say it again. I'll tell, yeah, I'll take that.

I'll take I was about to say, I wouldn't expect you one if you would've say it was a race. I would've

been five would Daytona Daytona's. Not even f1. That's Mascar right. Thing. So, but yeah, I knew it was an F1 event, but that Okay. I I had the villain right there. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It was Ivan Vanko whiplash.

So we we're we're saying I got two points. Yeah, you got two outta five. That's not bad. You know what? That's all I wanted. I, I just didn't want zero and two makes me feel good. And one of them was a confident and the other one was, you know, a halfway win. You

almost got Harry Potter though. I'm

like, yeah, I think we can call it two and a half Let's be real. We'll call it, we'll give it a two and a half on this one. So, uh, bonus question.

Alright, so, great. Um, I'm curious though, do you remember the, the question or the like. The slogan that Ivan Vanko had in Ironman two, the most popular line he said in

the movie. Oh my God. No, I I don't remember anything about Ironman two except that there was an F1 race. Uh, he says, he says it's whip, it's it's whipping time. That's, that would've been better. That, that

might have been better than what,

what's his actual line? What's his actual line?

The, it, it gives a little tidbit after, like, you, you reveal the answer and it says, I want my. Is like his most commonly, because you, I, in the movie, you remember he asked Hammer for his bird and then hammer's like going, he sends his assistant out to like, go get Ivans van's, bird. And it turns out it wasn't even the right bird that he comes back with, but, but he still gets attached to that bird anyways.

But that's, I don't remember this at all. It's like, it's funny, out of all the Marvel ones you could have picked mm-hmm. I was like, oh, I know all these movies. It's like, yeah. Except Ironman. Ironman too. Ironman too. I don't even think it's as bad as most people think. I actually think it's like completely fine for what it is. Mm-hmm. But I just, I've only, that's one I've only seen once. Um, but okay. I knew there was a race. That's great.

All right, so at a le let's, let's go through the multiverse here and, and go through the option A, what you would've Yes. If I had done it, what would've happened? Yeah. So option A would've been

Nintendo. Ah, damn. Yeah. That would've been a better one to pick, but I mean, I got the point, so I'm not gonna explain, but let's, let's go with it.

All right. So, Which character in the Nintendo universe? Pilots The Wild

Goose. Wow. Wild goose. I think that's an F zero thing, if I'm remembering right. Mm-hmm. I, it could be totally wrong, but I think it's F zero. Um, I would, I don't know the exact, uh, like, I don't know the exact one. It's probably not Sam Ray Guro. My guess would be Pico. And you would've got it correct. Pico is the right answer. yeah. Pico. I played so much F zero GX back in the day. I love that game. Um, a lot. That's, that's one of like the best game. Keep games out there. God, that would've been a good one to have picked and, and just confidently nailed because I feel like that one makes me sound like I'm smart and the rest of these messing up that the most basic detail about Harry Potter makes me sound like a dumb man. So, but I got Pico, everybody I know, my video games and, and apparently nothing else. That's,

that's a really good pool. Like I, yeah. Yeah. I, I want to know, I've won another F1 game. I

just F zero. Yeah. Zero F zero game. Mm-hmm. It's funny that the, the answer for option B was, was F1 and the answer mm-hmm. For option A was F zero. F zero. Yeah. Love that. Um, yeah, me too. They, they gotta make, I, I think they just, like, at this point they're like, Mario Kart is the only racing game we need and we don't wanna like mm-hmm. lead into our own money. And I feel like that's why we just haven't gotten one. But like, yeah, just gimme like a really fast stylistic, futuristic racing game that like, oh, for sure is shortcut heavy and whatever. Like, come on guys. Like, just make one. Yeah, just make one. And if it flops, like whatever we, we screwed up. We didn't buy it. Um, God gimme a new F zero maybe. I feel like with the Switch they've been like way more confident about bringing old series back cuz they're like mm-hmm. well it's gonna sell on the switch no matter what it is. You know, like worry aware and, and all of these like switch sports, you know, getting like, it's weird sequel this year. I feel like maybe there's hope in these last like, twilight years of the switch, right? Mm-hmm. two or three years, however much we have left with it that maybe they'll like one day be like, I think maybe, yeah. Like maybe it'll sell 2 million units and we just won't spend that much money to make it. Um, God, that would be, that would be my dream. That's that. And like, Starfox are the two franchises where it's like, are they gonna, these are the last two. Mm-hmm. are they gonna bring these to switch or not?

Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm right there with you. Like they're, they're the last holdouts, so I, I hope we actually get them. Giovanni, I got two last que two final questions before we go though. Okay. All right. Roll the dice here with me. Do you think we get a switch Pro announcement in

2023? Um, I think it is possible that we get one in 2023 at the tail end of the year. Mm-hmm. Um, if, if I don't, you know, I don't know. Speculation. This is all speculation, everyone. Pure, pure speculation. Of course. Um, I, I think realistically console lifespans in 2022, you know? Mm-hmm. at where we are now are like eight years and like, I think we're actually like probably on the verge of maybe seeing even longer lifespans. Like we might see a 10 year lifespan for PS five and, and Xbox series X. I think it's possible. Um, and I think that Nintendo, because the switch is really successful, usually their lifespans for consoles are shorter. They want to get to the next piece of hardware. I think the switches lifespan is going to be more on par. So we're coming up with the six year of the switch. Um, so like eight years I think would be the longest that I would expect the switch to be around before they. Um, we need, it let's, it's, it's in demand now. Yeah. And, and I do think that we'll probably go straight to the switch too. Like, I don't, I don't think there's gonna be like a mid generation gap. Mm-hmm. I, I think that like, that's what the OLE was supposed to be. Um, and you know, people just were like, this isn't, we don't see it as that. Mm-hmm. Um, so my guess is that like 2023 here? No, here's what I'll say. My, here's what I'll, I'll make, I'll do my called shot. Okay.

Let's, let's call it out

then. Which two gets announced? Nintendo direct, February, 2024. Okay. Like, lock me to that. Okay. We'll see, um, you know, with like, with a big E three grand reveal for it that June and a holiday release for it at, at the end of 2024. Oh, you're throwing out details. You, I'll throw out the whole detail. This is the whole, the whole thing is they, they unveil that motherfucker like in that, in that February, in that February direct, that usually sets up what the rest of their year is going to look like. They announce what their big holiday game is, you know, like next Mario or whatever. Um, with the announcement of like, switch two is coming, here's what it looks like at E three this year. We're gonna do a big blowout. We're gonna show you what this thing is and then like, you know, November or September or whatever, like this thing is coming. That would be my, that's the guess I'll make. Okay. That's the guess I'll make, I think it's possible that 2025, it actually happens and that we actually have like two years left with the switch. Mm-hmm. Um, and we get in like an early like March. 2025 release date rather than like a holiday thing. Um, but that is, that is the best guess I'll give. Okay. I like that. February, February 20, 24, we get the announcement. That holiday we get, we get

switched to. I like that. I like that. So let's just say, um, the sweet people at Nintendo came over to knocked on your door and said, Giovanni, what should we name the switch? What are you telling them

to name it? Wow. That's a really good God. That's a really good question. Um, it's hard because you don't wanna run into the we you problem. Mm-hmm. of like, just keeping the switch name and getting people really confused mm-hmm. about like what the switch is. Um, and, and thinking it's just an upgrade. Um, you know, it's tough. It, it depends on what the tech is. Um, I, you know, I, I would maybe like to see something that like, you know, in a, in a personal role Yeah. Of being, of being like an old man who grew up with Nintendo. Something that like Super Switch. Yeah. Like something that gets back at that like old school style of like Nintendo console naming that's like mm-hmm. Really just like, you know, like Super Nintendo Energy. Mm-hmm. like, you know, probably not super Switch, but something along the lines of like, you know, the Nintendo Ultra, you know? Mm-hmm. like something really stupid that, that would ever, um, the, the ultra rectangle, like whatever they wanna call it. I don't know. Um, you know, put game back in the title, gimme like mm-hmm. gimme, gimme, you know, the, the Game Pal. You know, like, I dunno, gimme, gimme a throwback, the Game Boy or something. Um, yeah. Hard, hard to say without knowing, I guess what it's gonna be. It, it just depends. Is it, is it just gonna be a more powerful switch? Are they gonna try and like completely rewrite the rules? I think the switch is just gonna be it. Like, I think that's gonna be their console for the next, like, I think 10 to 15 years. Yeah. Like, until, until, until it goes stale. Like why would you change it? Mm-hmm. they, they made a perfect device. Um, but yeah, like, I don't think they'll call it the Switch Pro. I don't, they'll probably won't do Switch in the name cause I think they learned their lessons from the Weu. Um. But you know, like the doc boy let's go. Oh, that's

good. I like that. Let's call the doc boy I like that. Yeah,

that's good. Boy,

Alright. Right. So last question, Giovanni. Yeah. Where

can the good people find you? Absolutely. Um, a couple places if you want to follow my writing about video games, I write [email protected]. Lots of good stuff over there. If you wanna listen to me talk about video games like I have been doing here, you can listen to my podcast, left Trigger, right Trigger, uh, which airs every other Tuesday. Uh, and also we have a Patreon for that, where you can, for as little as a dollar a month, uh, jump into our discord and, and, you know, get some bonus episodes and whatnot. Um, so, so check that out. Um, and you can find me on Twitter where I just, shit post a whole lot uh, about, about games and other things, um, at Mario Prime. So find me on any of those.

This sounds like a plan. Sounds like a plan. Without further ado, Giovanni, we reached the end of the episode, but we got to ask you one last thing. If you. We have a, a tradition here we like to do with our guests. It is Okay. Nothing super serious or anything like that. Have you ever had went through a drive-through and you got to the pay window and someone, is someone there, the p the people who formed you that your

order's already been paid for? Whoa. No, I have never, I don't think I've ever had that happen and I've gone through a lot of drive-throughs in my day. Um, maybe just not live in generous enough towns where that have happened. Um, I've done a lot of other stuff at drive-throughs that is weird. Uh, but, but I don't think that's happened one time. We, uh, I'll give an anecdote and then we'll get outta here. I can't, no, it sounds cool. I can't keep going at digressions. One time we went up to a drive-through, had the car go through it, then subbed the car out and took everyone in the car and put them in a cardboard box and had them like walk up to the window in the box as if it was a car and they. This is impossible. They were like, the drive-through doesn't trigger unless there's like a heavy piece of metal on it. And we were like, no, we just walked through with the box. And they were like, no, you didn't. That's not po. How did you do that Uh, that's my drive-through story, but no, I don't think anyone's ever, ever, uh, ever paid for it. But maybe I'll do that to somebody I can't drive. That's also the problem. I cannot drive a car, so I actually cannot do that. But maybe if I ever learn, I will, I will pay it forward.

Okay. So the reason why I ask is because I, uh, we have a tradition here. We do the podcast version of paying it forward, so, okay. What I mean by that is with all of our guests, I will, I, I usually ask our guests to give some general life advice to the listeners, so it doesn't necessarily have to be about video games. Just give some advice you think would be really cool to someone today.

Wow, that is a, whoa, that's such a big one. Yeah, it is. Oh my God. I wish I had prepared for that one instead of the Kirby one. Um, uh, God. Um, I. I guess like in keeping with the spirit of, of the conversation that we had. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think some of the discussion that we had about some of the games we talked about, um, just this idea of like pushing your horizons a little bit. Um, don't be afraid of like moving out of your comfort zone. Um, and, and kind of like, you know, on the art side of it, like, you know, reaching out and, and finding art that, you know, games that maybe you don't think you would like and, and pushing yourself to kind of, you know, be like, well, maybe I should, you know, like give this a shot and, and try something that I don't necessarily think I'm gonna like, because again, like ment is a game that I did not think I would like and, you know, totally changed my change, my view on games in, in some regard this year. Um, but I think that that, you know, more generally I is just adaptable, um, to, to kind of life where it's like, you know, you, you don't wanna get stuck too much in a comfort zone. Um, I have. I have been there where I've like spent many years stuck in a comfort zone. It's why I took longer than I would've liked to actually like really get into games journalism and where I am now. Um, I really had to like, push myself out and do stuff that I, you know, uh, j just like didn't think I would be able to do and like get into it in a way that like I didn't feel confident about. Um, and uh, and I think that once you kind of get there and, and start dropping that mentality, um, good, good things can really happen. Um, so yeah, just, just don't be afraid to, uh, try new things. Push outta the comfort zone and uh, and, and just like, get weird Just get weird you know? That's, that's it. Hopefully that's, that's a good on the fly life wisdom.

I like that. I like that. So everyone just put yourselves out of the comfort zone a little bit and get weird. You know, get weird, get weird. Maybe, maybe decide that pineapples do belong on pizza. Maybe not, you

know? Well, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Don't put those don't put those words in my mouth. But yeah, I, I like the energy.

So lazy. Gentlemen, this has been it for us. Giovanni, I wanna thank you so much for being on the show, man. It really means a lot. I loved talking

to you today. Yeah, thank you. Likewise. Uh, fantastic little chat. Thank you for having me,

so that's a wrap for today's show. I wanna give a special shadow and thank you to Giovanni Co Antonio for joining us on today's episode. I also wanna let you know about the single player experience Discord server. It's the perfect place for single player gamers to talk about the good single player games they've been playing lately, and to get video game recommendations. Think of it kind of like a book club for single player gamers. The link to join will be in the description. Once you're in, feel free to share your video game backlog list. Talk about the good games you've been playing, or give your feedback on the show if you have a game that you think should be recommended or that you think I should talk about. Let me know in the single Player Experience Discord server. I'll see you there. Before we go, I just want to thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Stay safe, stay gamming, and I hope to catch you in the next one. Peace.